X-Message-Number: 22215
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:48:48 -0700
From: Mike Perry <>
Subject: Re: Religion & Cryonics

John Grigg, #22203, and my comments.

>While I think defending cryonics generally is a very good idea, attacking 
>religion & its adherants to "make the world safe for cryonics" is going to 
>only eventually blow up in our face.

Yes, I agree.

>  I agree with the notion of presenting cryonics to the general public as 
> simply a medical procedure which has no guarantee of working, but is well 
> worth the risk and cost involved.

This seems a safe approach. Some of us, of course, see a lot more than 
"just a medical procedure" and are jubilant about it. But we have to be 
careful how we present our take on it, whenever we do.

>I had wondered how long it would take the Reverand Jerry Falwell and those 
>like him to take notice of cryonics.  I would imagine in time Christian 
>bookstores will offer books about cryonics and transhumanism which will 
>not be very flattering.

We have to convey the message "we are not your enemies". There are some 
things we can do, such as noting how Christianity, on the face of it, 
supports life extension (Matt. 10:8 for instance). I would also say it even 
supports humans becoming more than (normal) humans and immortal, since 
Christians are to be as much like Jesus as possible.

>   What bothers me is the idea cryonics will automatically be lumped 
> together with transhumanism which does not necessarily always come part 
> and parcel with it.
>
>I do see in some ways a connection between the two, but one does not need 
>to be a garden variety atheistic transhumanist to be signed up for cryonics.
>
>Considering Cryonet archives can be combed with an internet search engine, 
>we should be careful what we write here.  Or else at least make it out of 
>bounds for the search engines.

A problem we have is that different people have different, conflicting 
views, and do not hesitate to express these views. This is not a problem 
for us, since we are committed to freedom of expression. Certain people, 
though, could take great offense if views contrary to their own are 
expressed. I don't want to see us cave in to these types with a policy of 
censorship--surely that is not the best course. A clear disclaimer 
somewhere, explaining the situation and noting that contrary views are 
often expressed, may be in order.

>As David Pizer has said, cryonicists and the religious powers that be need 
>to get along.  So anyone who wants to live in the future Ventureville 
>cryonics community had better not march down the street with a "Down with 
>the God meme & Religion" banner to stir things up!  A spirit of 
>friendliness and mutual understanding is what the Venturists are looking 
>for in their quest for a world where cryonics can succeed.

I think this is well put. Actually the Venturist organization itself is an 
umbrella organization that admits members of different points of view and 
does not insist on one particular worldview or another. Some Venturists 
will be atheistic, for instance, and some theistic. In a posting yesterday 
I was waxing enthusiastic about "non-supernatural religion." But it must be 
emphasized that this point of view in no way is enforced or universal in 
the organization. It will be one of the major themes in my book on 
Venturism, as I said in a posting yesterday, but not the only one. I intend 
to give fair treatment to others as well.

Mike Perry

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