X-Message-Number: 22325 From: "John de Rivaz" <> Subject: taking it with you. Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:05:12 +0100 Whilst I would agree with Mike Perry's comment that the easiest and possibly least costly from a cryonics-global point of view is to overfund, many people will feel so uncomfortable with this that they'd rather be annihilated than arrive in the future with nothing. This doesn't do them much good we know, but it also deprives the cryonics organisations of their custom and other support. A cryonicist after all is someone who has rejected the authoritarian concept of a religion and God that will look after their essential selves (souls) and seek instead to look after themselves instead. Indeed, philosophers such as NF Fyodorov http://www.venturist.org/fyodorov.htm have suggested that even Christian believers should consider the possibility that "God helps those who help themselves" from the point of view of humanity as a whole. God will use the future endeavours of human science, technology and organisation as his tools and labourers to reanimate "lost souls". Taking that aspect further suggests that individuals may be equally less than happy with the concept of cryonics organisations being like parents handing out pocket money when they are revived. They would be happier with the chance of getting a fund that is theirs because they made it in the first place. I have always said that there are many dimensions (ie quantities) involved with a successful cryopreservation/reanimation. Only one of these is whether the physical universe supports to concept at all. This is a certainty in an absolute sense, it is either 0 or 1. The only uncertainty is that we don't know its value. There are also many dimensions of risk that apply to trusts, except that there are no undiscovered mathematical or physical certainties involved. All the factors that are the negatives that apply to cryonics -- such as scheming individuals (furthering their finances of careers either on their own account or for a profession or government) that want to do the hapless individual down -- apply to trusts. One of the other uncertainties that apply to cryonics is the financial strength of the cryonics organisations. This is a difficult one. If they are very wealthy, they are more likely to be the subject of legal adventurers. But if they are extremely wealthy such people would be too afraid to sue as they are more likely to lose and suffer a counter suit. The latter is a very good position for the organisation to be in. But this caveat aside, I would suggest that the wealthier they are the more likely they are to survive. I have no clear answer, but one possibility is to use surplus funding not to boost either your own funding or that of a trust, but to pay for a friend or relation to be cryopreserved. Maybe that is the best possible method of taking something to the future -- some *one* to stand by your side. It also benefits the cryonics organisation (albeit less than a straight gift) and is some small insurance in favour of your own cryopreservation. (If you don't make it to the future because of some individual's actions, whether on their own account or doing their job for someone else, they or their descendants could feel uncomfortable about "getting a smacking" from your friends who do make it to the future.) -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22325