X-Message-Number: 22697 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob <> Subject: Re: Platt on Poulation Platt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Plus is still worried about population, although I find it hard to understand why. >>>>>>>>>>> Charles, you cite a report or 2 to support your case that those concerned with overpopulation are Chicken Littles, but is it possible that the entities generating such reports have agendas? Are they paid to say what others want them to? I think it possible, and even likely, given the forces and motivations in play. Will there be adverse consequences for those who write such reports if 100 years from now, they are proven wrong, and population grows much faster than they predicted? I doubt it. I am talking about the forces that want more immigration-driven population growth. Frankly, I see a lot of evidence that corporations and their lobbyists and the various governments here in the USA find high immigration rates to be very desirable: it increases the labor supply, thus decreasing wages, which corporate lobbies like. And it increases the population, obviously, which the govt likes. Hmm, more crowded and lower wages....great news...if you are a wealthy landowner or investor. That leaves most of us out. So, therefore, with these powerful and well-funded entities available to influence reports such as the one you quoted, I find it likely that such reports are slanted--to say the least. I find other sources more believable, given the evidence of tremendous population growth I see around me. Also, I find it likely that immigrants will have birth rates well above replacement levels here in the USA. Take a gander at some other population growth graphs: http://www.numbersusa.com/overpopulation/headed2.html http://www.numbersusa.com/overpopulation/headed3.html http://www.susps.org/overview/population.html http://www.susps.org/overview/numbers.html These graphs seem to tell a different story than the scenario you set out for us. Some of the graphs seem to have an slight exponential increase to them. And, furthermore, whenever, you (and other freemarket libertarians etc) broach this subject on cryonet, you seem to always come to the same conclusion--that population growth will level off and decrease at some point in the future. Well, so what? That says nothing about the hellacious and almost certainly dangerous and unstable conditions the USA will encounter along that path, thanks to defacto open borders. And this is not even touching on the TYPE of population increases brought on by current immigration trends, with the almost certain deleterious effects of language-based balkanization, and other negative effects of the present immigration.... You also wrote: >>>> Therefore the population growth that still exists in the US is caused almost entirely by immigration. If an agricultural crisis develops (which I find totally implausible) obviously immigration quotas will be revised downward. >>>> Really? You know, I really have to wonder whether you are seriously out of touch with how the world works, being way out there in the Arizona brush. The world does not really operate that cleanly and efficiently, as you apparently envision when you write about how obvious it would be that "immigration quotas would be revised downward" if we got short on food. Umm....how can I put this? How about a quote from the "Private Hudson" character in the movie Aliens: "Maybe you ain't been keeping track of current events, but we just got our asses kicked, man!" What I am trying to say is we are no longer living in a relatively small, homogenous, well-organized and controllable country, as many of the western european countries still are to a degree, and as your boyhood England was, and as the USA was once in the 50s and 60s. We may very well be headed for the type of semi-chaotic situation we see in most 3rd world countries. Revising immigration quotas downward may well be an empty gesture, if current trends continue. The immigrants are coming here whether we want them or not, short of effectively declaring war on illegal immigration, with troops, stationed on the border, etc. If food is in short supply here in the USA, how do you think Mexico is going to fare? And to go one step further, when I say that "immigrants are coming here whether we want them or not," let's just admit that most Americans do NOT want more immigrants (polls show that 55-80% of all Americans want less immigration). So, again, these powerful entities called "corporate lobbies" and the "government" do the wanting. Anyway, just some of my thoughts on this subject. Has not much to do with cryonics per se, but a lot to do with what is going to happen to the USA while we wait in our dewars for the development of the type of country that can someday revive us. So, not exactly off-topic. Maybe I am wrong--I sure hope so. ===== ----Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22697