X-Message-Number: 23028 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:36:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Libertarianism, Cryonics, Religion From: Allan Randall <> Mike, I found your views on religion and cryonics very interesting. Just to add to the discussion, I thought I'd summarize my own experiences with respect to religion, cryonics and transhumanism. I think that any attempt to create a religious outlet for cryonicists must work both at creating new organizations of a religious nature that are friendly to cryonics (eg, WTA, Extropians and Venturism), and also on creating a more comfortable place for cryonicists in already established religious organizations. "Religious" here is meant in the broader sense you have already laid out. Unitarianism: this is probably the most established religious outlet for humanists and freethinkers, having a predominantly humanist emphasis over the last 50 to 100 years. As such, it seems a natural choice for a transhumanist cryonicist. However, most Unitarian humanists are not of the "trans" variety, but the more generic variety, and so there is not currently a large transhumanist element in the church, at least not one that is organized. I hosted a cryonics panel and discussion at our church recently. featuring some local cryonics personalities, and there were some rather hostile reactions by some church members, although some others were good-naturedly curious (and at least no one seemed to question the appropriateness of having the panel in first place). There are some humanist Unitarian ministers partial to cryonics, but many more of the mortalist stripe. I have been a Unitarian for a few years now, and there is one other cryonicist (at least) in my congregation. Unitarianism is noncreedal, and has affiliate organizations within it for the various belief groups. There is currently an attempt underway to create an affiliate group for transhumanists, but it is in the early stages. See: http://www.tuun.com/. One problem is that Unitarianism has typically attracted a large number of left-wing liberals, who, statistically speaking, tend to be heavily on the mortalist side of humanism ('we desire to die for the good of our children', etc.). However, there is an affiliate group for classical liberals, who are I think represented more strongly in the younger generation. Freemasonry: I am currently applying for membership in a co-masonic (men and women's) lodge. Traditional male-only freemasonry in North America has rather stagnated in the last 100 years, but this is not at all the case in Continental Europe, where Freemasonry is a fast-growing, thriving, freethinking institution. North American male-only masonry also has this freethinking element, as well, but it has a very aging membership and a somewhat out-dated perspective on what constitutes 'freethinking'. Co-masonry in North America, however, is based on the European model, and is a very open, freethinking institution. While a secular institution, Freemasonry has some religious objectives, when "religious" is defined in a very broad sense. From what I know, its rituals (broadly religious or spiritual in nature but not supernatural in content) seem very compatible with the typical transhumanist / cryonicist world view. (I can elaborate if there is interest.) Although nonpolitical, Masonry has also (like cryonics) tended to attract individualistic and libertarian personality types, due to the nature of their rituals and their organizational structure. One of the earliest modern advocates of cryonics, Ben Franklin, was a mason (back when American masonry was more like the European masonry of today). The WTA, the Extropy Institute and Venturism are all wonderful outlets, of course, and already have a strong cryonics element to them. However, they are also very new and very tiny compared to Unitarianism and Freemasonry. I think those cryonicists and transhumanists with some religious or quasi-religious interests may be well served by also exploring existing institutions, and trying to grow a transhumanist/cryonics-friendly population within them. Good luck with Aionism... if you can distill its essence in a list of principles or somesuch, I'd like to see it. (Might even sign up if I like what I see...) Cheers, Allan -- Allan Randall, , http://www.elea.org/ "Whatever can be thought of or spoken of necessarily IS, since it is possible for it to be, but it is not possible for NOTHING to be." -- Parmenides of Elea, c. 475 B.C. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=23028