X-Message-Number: 23045 From: Subject: Re: Mike Perry 23033, James Swayze23037 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:02:01 +0000 Mike Perry:The Libertarian theory if applied to government would be better. The old Republican and classical liberal theory (smaller, less intrusive government) would also be better than current government. The Democrats and Republicans are not applying that "theory"...they are applying collectivism which was imposed for the entire 20th century (and is still imposed). It produces poverty and misery in inverse proportion to the amount of capitalism allowed. We all know what Democrats and Republicans do, what is so terrible about giving the Libertarian candidates an opportunity to apply the theory of smaller, less intrusive government? If they are given that chance but continue with business as usual, well...I guess we are just f..... or we take up arms! Article I, section 8 and the "general welfare" clause. Yes, government is allowed to tax. Thomas Jefferson spoke to the general welfare clause. I don't remember the exact quote but might be able to find it. Basically he said take it too literally and the government might become something you don't like. Most (if not all)of the unconstitutional government we suffer under is due to congress interpreting the commerce and general welfare clause (where are you Tom...we need you). Yes, the government can conduct military research on weapons and related subjects! It could be argued that research on anything from flower pollination to sexual disfunction has military application but I thing that would be a stretch equal to what congress does with the commerce and general welfare clauses. If you read the Federalist Papers (I struggled with half of them and only remember two ideas expressed) I learned that the Founders were terrified of big government and didn't want a standing army. Does that mean the military is unconstitutional. I admit the constitution is not completely clear to me. You are ignoring the constitution if you allow the government to have: Social security, medicare, medicade, H.U.D., N.E.A., nat'l endowment for arts, nat'l endowment for humanities, F.B.I., D.E.A., A.T.F., foreign aid,...and on and on ad-nauseum!! And lets not forget the "Patriot Act "which should be renamed "The Orwellian Act".James Swayze: Your post was quite visceral and I agree with its general meaning. Once again I will say tax cuts are good for everyone including people who conduct research (more money available). I don't know of any candidate with a real chance of winning that would do even that (at least among the democrats). We will have a president after the next election. If he is a Democrat we will get the same thing G.W. gave us: Bigger government, but we will also get more taxes and stifling regulations imposed on business and the individual (and possibly a repeal of G.W.'s tax cuts). Who would you like to see elected? When a Democrat or Republican says: "I support stem cell research" he is saying the wind of public opinion seems to be blowing that way. If that wind changes he will oppose it. When a Libertarian says: "I support stem cell research" he is saying it is a fundamental right to do research and government should not interfere. Unfortunately the Libertarian candidateis NOT going to be president. We are stuck with the R & D's. Jerry Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=23045