X-Message-Number: 23558 Subject: Scott Badger's question on low-temperature clinical death From: Michael Hartl <> References: <> Date: 05 Mar 2004 12:23:29 -0800 > > CLARE CHAPMAN IN VIENNA > > > > TWO boys who were clinically dead for more than an > > hour after falling > > through ice into a frozen lake in Austria have been > > brought back to life. > > I don't profess to fully understanding the technology > underlying cryonics, so correct me if I'm wrong but > ... does this story really have anything to do with > cryonics? Hi Scott, I've had somewhat the same reaction to stories like this one in the past. It's definitely misleading to imply that people surviving cardiac arrest at low temperatures has anything to do with cryonics per se. Currently, the damage resulting from even the best cryopreservation is much more extensive than the injuries sustained in cases like this. At first glance, both situations involve "low temperatures", which perhaps accounts for some of the confusion, but the liquid nitrogen used in cryonic suspensions represents a qualitatively different kind of cold. In a broader sense, though, these stories are valuable reminders that the dividing line between life and death isn't nearly as stark as most people believe. Such stories show that it is possible to be "clinically dead" for long periods of time and still be restored to health. Moreover, they are powerful rebuttals to the oft-heard claim that a mere few minutes of full cardiac arrest (and the ensuing loss of oxygen to the brain) are sufficient to guarantee irreparable brain damage. The true situation is much more complicated. (The actual damage in such cases results from an autoimmune response upon restoration of blood flow, not the oxygen deprivation itself; my understanding is that this response is suppressed by low temperatures, in much the same way that icing a sprained ankle keeps it from swelling.) Choosing cryonics involves a leap of the imagination; cases like the Vienna miracle boys, while having no direct bearing on the plausibility of cryonics, may enable such a leap for some. If you can be restored to health with today's technology after an hour under water, perhaps future technology will render much longer-term cryonic suspensions merely another form of reversible "clinical death" -- that is to say, not really death at all. Michael -- Michael Hartl http://michaelhartl.com/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=23558