X-Message-Number: 23675
From: "Trygve B.Bauge" <>
Subject: If this is not helpful and accomodating, then what is???
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:28:26 +0100

From: "Stephen J. Van Sickle" <> wrote:

>On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 04:00,  John de Rivaz wrote:

>> Presumably it was the personality and actions of
>> Trygve that made the Colorado people so accommodating. 

>They are *not* accommodating.  Cryonics is *illegal* in Nederland. 
>Grandpa was just "grandfathered" in when the law was passed (pun purely
>intentional).  Making lemonade out of lemons, they started a festival to
>draw in tourist dollars.
>
>Might make for a fun day, but don't expect them to actually take
>anything seriously, and if they do, don't expect them to be helpful.
>
>http://www.frozendeadguy.com/fdg/saga.htm



Some people on the cryonet is desperately trying to present everything in the 
worst possible light,

without checking their facts. What about asking those of us who know the 
situation, before jumping to negative conclusions?
and before posting erroneous messages?

No one is denying that the townboard in Nederland passed an ordinance in 1994,
banning storage of frozen biological material within the town limits.


However, as my lawyer so elloquently pointed out at a hearing at the time: the 
ordinance is overbroad and unconstitutional and would not stand to be challenged
in court,


It would among other things outlaw the storage of broccoli in peoples home 
freezers. .-)

It is an ordinance with no legal standing when it comes to cryonics.


The ordinance doesn't mention cryonics and has never been enforced, and when the
locals understood they might face a costly legal battle to defend the 
townboards attempt to ban cryonics, a local political action commitee was formed
to fight the townboard. A kind of save our taxpayers money committee.


When grandfather is grandfathered in, this was over the objection of the 1994 
townboard, who actually wanted him moved or thawed out.


When the public rose up and stopped the town board, I think their action was 
both accomodating and helpful,

and when Stephen J. Van Sickle claims otherwise he is just uninformed and 
ignorant, and for some unknown reason out to jump to his guns.


Stephen J. Van Sickle, you might want to check in with my good friend Jerry van 
Sickle in Boulder Colorado before opening your mouth on this case again. 


As  a result of the popular upraising the townboard was replaced at the next 
election, and we have never since had any problem with the town board.


The same mayor who proposed the ban was reelected several year's later and was 
quoted all over the media 1 year ago, that he himself invited the frozen 
Martinots to be moved from France to Nederland Colorado if these could no longer
be stored in France. The offer was passed on to Martinot's son in France, but 
he has so far not selected to accept the offer, and what the present situation 
is for his parents is not known, maybe someone on the cryonet knows? 


The Mayor at a press conference even proposed that the French couple could be 
placed in my facility, even without asking me up front. He got my approval 
afterwards of course. 


Already in the spring of 1994, the local newspaper the Mountainear did an 
opinion poll that showed that 71 % of the town population was in favour of 
letting us keep my grandfather in town. And lots of town people have been quoted
ever since saying things like "If one frozen guy is good for the town, 2 might 
be even better", or "Ted Williams should be moved here" etc...


It is no question in my mind that the town would be accomodating if one made a 
serious offer to build a local facility.


AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT NEITHER THE COUNTY NOR THE STATE BANNED 
CRYONICS IN 1994, ACTUALLY BOTH CAME DOWN ON THE SIDE OF MY GRANDFATHER, AND 
NEITHER HAVE ANY LAWS ON THE BOOKS AGAINST CRYONICS.
 

Anyway the town of Nederland is a small town with 1500 people, and the remaining
issue is more one of zoning, e.g. where to place a cryonic facility, rather 
than whether or not to have one.


Most likely a facility would end up not within the relatively small city, but 
just outside the city limits on county and not city jurisdiction.

And this because the city is small and residential, while the surrounding county
area have more old mining and gravel pit like areas fit for business parks.
The access for large liquid nitrogen trucks has to be taken into account too,

As far as price on liquid nitrogen is concerned, one might be better off by 
building not in the mountains but down on the prarie but still within Boulder 
county, or maybe even nearer the liquid air plant in Denver for that matter.

If one build in the mountain one would have to buy a small liquid nitrogen 
truck, or go and pick up bottles of liquid nitrogen,  since the large delivery 
trucks with 18 wheels might have a problem  getting up in the mountains.

As long as one use smaller transportation tanks than 18 wheel trucks, then 
Nederland and our site would work fine.



Not just did the town population assisted by my lawyer, stop the town board and 
secure that my grandfather is grandfathered in,

the chamber of commerce annual festival is also raising funds towards my 
grandfather's upkeep, tour money, and procceds from books, raffles, movie 
showings etc, 

not to mention all the good will that is generated and the value of maintaining 
the case in the public eye.


The chamber is also assisting me in finding local contractors to maintain the 
buildings on the site. And they maintain a slush fund for my grandfather.
 
Several local business have contributed lots of money and other assistance.

The Tuff shed people has donated a large Tuff shed worth several thousand 
dollars, with electrical light, that houses my grandfather 

Just a few weeks ago they even paid for having the shed repainted, in time for 
the festival of course..

Other companies like airgas in Denver frequently contribute dry ice.


A local authour who is writing a murder mystery book  called "Murder in the Tuff
shed" just donated a new thermometer worth USD 200.

A local radio station Kfox is an annual sponsor.


A local film company got one or two 5000 dollar grants from Tuff shed to make an
award winning movie about my grandfather's situation. etc. etc.,

Neigbours and the local police keep an eye on the place.

If this is not helpful and accomodating then what is????


And the state and local media has kept touring the facility annually for 10 
years now. 

Radio station Kfox even organized a 101 year birthday party for my grandfather 
complete with a birthday cake. 


Locally Frozen dead Guy Days is larger then Fourth of July, and attracts broad 
and positive coverage both up front and during the events from ALL THE LARGER 
NEWSPAPERS IN THE DENVER/BOULDER AREA, year after year.


IT IS EXTREMELY VALUABLE TO HAVE POSITIVE MEDIA COVERAGE AS AN ANNUAL TRADITION,
FROM THE SAME MEDIA OUTLETS YEAR AFTER YEAR, IN A SERIOUS AND 100% POSITIVE 
WAY,   


Most other cryonic facilites do not experience the value of repeat large scale 
positive media coverage as a tradition. And most do experience that the media 
coverage they do get often is combined with attacks. You won't find anything in 
the local media coverage even vaguely resembling an attack.  There is no 
interviews with people trying to attack the whole thing, which usually is a main
part of the media coverage other cryonics facilities get.


In additional to the annual repeat coverage, we also have the sporadic visits 
from various national and international production companies, anniversaries, 
authors etc. etc.

Bo seems to take someone along quite a few times each year. Local media usually 
comes along up front of the festival too, to write lengthy articles up front of 
this.

Or as the journalist from the Denver post started her letter to me with, before 
this year's festival: "Hi Trygve, It is this time of the year again." 


To find the attacks one has to read Cryonet :-)   which is kind of strange taken
into account how much the same people complain about the attacks on cryonics.


Sincerely,

Trygve

Life-Extension Systems, Universal Liberty, The Global Village Project, 
The Norw. Icebathing Club, Action 88/Residental Assoc. at Hovsetervn. 88
Trygve Bauge,  pb. 59 Hovseter, N-0705 Oslo, Norway. Ph(47)22-14-80-78
Visit Trygve's Meta Portal (tm) www.trygve.bauge.com  

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