X-Message-Number: 25182 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:12:34 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Badger <> Subject: Re: Libet If I understand correctly, Dr. Ettinger questions the veracity of Libet's hypothesis. I would say that a distinction needs to be made here between interpreting Libet's results as (1) indicating that unconscious volitions precede conscious volitions, and (2) indicating that voluntary acts are preceded by neuronal activity Libet referred to as readiness potentials (RPs), and that the conscious intention to act occurs after the preparations to act have already been put in motion. For one thing, the first interpretation assumes a great similarity between unconscious mental events and conscious ones. This may or may not be the case, but clearly unconsious volitions of some type do exist and influences our behavior to some degree. To a materialist, the second interpretation seems to follow quite naturally. As Blackmore points out, it's magical thinking to believe that the conscious mind precedes such neural activity. The mind is what the brain does, after all, not the other way around. It makes sense that consciousness would not occur simultaneously with these neural preparations to act. Can we describe these neuronal initiations as unconscious volitions? Perhaps Donald can offer some insight here. Some are disturbed by this attack on our sense of free agency, but few people would really argue that all volition is conscious. We all do things that we later describe as 'unintended". We like to hold to our commonsense feeling of free agency, but the degree of freedom we actually possess is, at best, quite limited. We generally think of free agency as 'uncaused' conscious volition. So behavior caused by UNconscious volition would not qualify. But, of course, both unconscious and conscious volitions have antecedants and thus are 'caused' in one way or another (e.g. genetic predispositions, how you were conditioned by your environment, etc.) It doesn't make sense to me for us to try to increase my sense of free agency by striving for 'uncaused' volition, but we can strive for greater awareness of and thus greater control over behavioral antecedants. Scott Badger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25182