X-Message-Number: 25293 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:09:49 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Badger <> Subject: Re: Identity Valera: Strictly speaking, there's only a POSSIBILITY that human mind can be sustained on a non-biological substrate. Scott: Agreed. Valera: First, you cannot have two QEs because YOU are your QE (it's just another word for YOU). Scott: I see no self-evident reason for this. If part of your QE system is damaged your conscious mind will likely be diminished. If we add to your QE system it would stand to reason that your conscious mind would expand. Don't think of it as two QE's, but rather an expansion of the original. Or do you propose that a QE is defined only by a system with contiguous neurons and that adding to the system in some other location in the brain would not result in enhancement but only duplication. Valera: Second, I wouldn't recommend expanding your brain in such a way. Your external brain system would already have its own QE. Scott: My example involved a replica of the brain inside my skull, and it wouldn t be activated until I expanded into it so it would be a dormant QE system, but I would agree with you that adding the neuronal extensions gradually is preferable. Please understand. First, I don t believe that a copy or a duplicate of me is really me. I do think it may be possible to upload using a gradual process that maintains continuity. Secondly, I have no desire to get rid of the sense of self I currently possess. I m just saying that if our minds grow and expand as I think they will, our future selves may be analogous to what the waking mind is to the dreaming mind. And most people shed their dream self almost every morning shortly after waking up. Richard: In fact, I would, after much testing, want my brain to be replaced gradually, with a more durable (and functionally equivalent!!!) counterpart. This would open the door to increasing the number of conscious events per minute, which in turn would make time slow down. I could perhaps live a hundred years in the space of a day, thus increasing my perceived lifespan tremendously. Scott: I agree again. Richard: Exceeding human limitations' is meaningless. There are no such thing as intrinsic 'human limitations.' There are only things which you view as limitations to your own happiness. Scott: I don't get it. How is intelligence not an intrinsic human limitation? Brains differ but all have their limits. Richard: Smart people often derive some happiness not from just being as smart as they are, but from being smarter than others, so if you were to increase your intelligence, it would only make you happy until everyone else did the same. Scott: I don t want to be more intelligent for the sake of status. I desire a greater understanding of the universe in which I live and if other s achieve the same, all the better. Plus, having desires and goals is not the same thing as being unhappy, at least for most of us. Richard: ... the brain (and your synthetic equivalent) is designed as a thing with a singular qualia experiencer, which is you. Scott: Well, as I understand your theory, the QE is a physical system, and systems can be downgraded or upgraded, can't they? If I added a third eyeball to the back of my head, I'd be enhancing or upgrading my visual system if it was properly hooked up. What';s the essential difference? Richard: ... but it is mistaken to think of the two experiencers as being the same---i.e. as being a single experiencer. They are two physical systems, each having a qualia experiencer, and they 'happen' to experience the same things. If you destroy one of them, that one stops experiencing, since it was destroyed. Scott: So if I completely understood the physical structure and functioning of my QE, would there be any possible way for me to enhance it? Best regards, Scott Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25293