X-Message-Number: 26391
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re:  Ethics of Immortality
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:16:39 +0100

> Cryonics won't make peace with a religion unless cryonics happens to
> be consistent with the core tenets of the religion.  If the religion
> says that getting to Heaven is good, and the only way there is through
> proper observance of the religion, then there's no room for compromise
> there.

There is no compromise needed here. Religions usually say that hastening
your own end to get to heaven sooner is such a terrible sin that if you were
to try you'd be admitted to the "other place" instead.

The fact that most people in the developed world have heard of the concept
of cryonics one way or another means that most people know that the option
exists, in the same way that they know doctors exist. I would imagine that
most local ministers of religion would point out to their flocks that it is
their religious duty to keep themselves in good health for as long as
possible as part of their duties to their neighbours. If they are in good
health, then they can do God's work in looking after their neighbours. The
same can be extended to cryonics -- if they get cryopreserved and then
reanimated, they can continue God's work in looking after their neighbours.

I would say that the existence of cryonics is a test that every religious
person is facing. If he rejects it, and arrives at the "awful day of
judgement" he could be told that he has sinned by not valuing the gift of
life and using the facilities that God has provided to enable him to
continue God's work in the world. Remember that God is the omnipotent being,
and cryonics would not exist (and certainly not work) if he had not intended
it to be so.

One of the points of conflict between religion and cryonics could be that
cryonicists are seen as a group of people each of whom has the sole
objective of saving their own life. If on the other hand the group could
present itself as one which seeks to save live generally, then maybe this
would help.

This is of course extremely difficult, as the whole world likes the ideal
concept of medical care being available at the point of need and work out
the cost later. (Even in the UK this is not strictly true. People are not
rationed on the basis of whether they can pay personally, but on random
criteria, such as on what days of the year they fall ill or how near a
hospital they are when they fall ill, or how busy the doctors are in the
hospital.) The early days of cryonics have shown the harsh reality of
economics -- try to offer "humane" care for everyone and count the cost
later, and the group quickly collapses.

The harsh realities of the world make it necessary for cryonics service
providers to have an order of priorities, and every action has to pass down
the list. If any action risks one level, then it cannot be executed.

1. patients in storage
2. members signed up with correct arrangements
3. members signed up with arrangement incomplete
4. members
5. prospective members alive
6. prospective members proposed post mortem
7. people who are just curious and may be members one day

Risks to religions are less well defined. They do not have people in their
care who are as helpless and dependant as cryonics patients.

The one thing that does help is the fact that some cryonics organisations
are continually investigating preservation methods that are lower in cost
and easier to provide for those with large families dependant on few
earners, or single people with little earning capacity. There is the problem
that it is regarded by some as unethical to offer something that is even
less likely to work than a state of the art cryopreservation, but to
paraphrase the words of Thomas Donaldson, "Should we force that person to
face annihilation because some cheap process is very unlikely to work."

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26391