X-Message-Number: 26400
From: 
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:24:49 EDT
Subject: Observations upon returning from church...surprising, eh?

This is Rudi Hoffman writing from Port Orange, FL.
 
My accolades and appreciation goes to the thoughtful posters of today's  
cryonet messages.
 
It is Sunday, June 26, and, believe it or not...

I just returned from church.  Specifically, the Salvation Army  "worship 
service".  
 
Readers of my posting yesterday may wonder what kind of hypocrisy is  this?  
Yesterday Hoffman is saying "Yea, we should think about suing the  

promulgators of religious myth and dogma because they make unprovable  claims."

And today he goes to a very traditional christian church  service?  Was he 
going to make a stand for rationality  and cryonics?  Did he stand up in the 
middle of the service and shout,  "I am sorry, but you are espousing 

superstitious nonsense that discourages  people from exploring more rational and

scientific paths toward long term self  preservation...this is truly bullshit?!"
 
Well, the short answer is, "no." I was there to say good bye and  wish the 
local leaders well in their new posting.  
 
And, yes, I do feel a bit hypocritical at this moment for my activity as a  
board member for the Salvation Army advisory board.  And, since the  "Majors" 
David and Cherry Craddock are being reassigned to a different area, it  was 
part of "being nice" to be at this service to wish them well. 
 
I don't normally go to the church service put on by the Salvation  Army.  

I do attend the monthly advisory board meetings.  

An obvious question is "Why?"
 
I am rather unambivalent and fairly public with my lack of belief in a  

personal god who cares.  And I certainly don't believe the absolute  nonsense 
that 
is unfortunately the theological basis for the Salvation  Army.
 
But, in contrast, the SA DOES happen to do a LOT of good for those folks  who 
truly are in need.  
 
They have an infrastructure in place that stretches back to the  1800s.  

Literally generations of folks have dedicated their lives to  providing for the
needy, the downtrodden, the alcohol and substance abusers  among us.  The work 
they do with the homeless is exemplary in many  respects.
 
The "Major" I have been working with the last 5 years or so is a SIXTH  

generation "Savationist."  He and his wife are part of a structure that is  
rather 
unarguably meeting a lot of human needs. (BTW, you get a "two for  one" 

special with SA staffers...typically a husband and wife work together for  the 
price 
of one professional staffer.) 

And doing so in a  remarkably cost effective, scandal free manner.  The SA 
wins awards from  independent watchdog groups for the efficiency and 
effectiveness of contribution  usage.
 
But, going to the church service is disturbing.
 
The songs are catchy, familiar, emotional...
 
And at the same time indicative of a truly awful, mythological theology. 
 
There is lot about the blood of Jesus washing away our sins.  And  how happy 
we are all about it.  Viewed from and anthropological  viewpoint, or that of 
comparative religion, one would have to say this is a  truly unlikely and 
bloody religion.
 
My rationale for my continual involvement with the Board is pretty  
straightforward.  And not overly hypocritical...I think.  
 
Let's say you are a drunk on the street...perhaps you have huge  emotional, 
psychological, mental problems...substance abuse and self destructive  
tendencies.
 
In other words, you have "issues."  (Yea...it turns out we all have  

issues...but some folks have these in a form worse than most of us can  
imagine).
 
Do you really need to hear that the Universe almost certainly does not give  
two hoots about you?  
 
Or is it more helpful for you to find that Jesus died for your sins, and  

that the mind racking guilt you feel is taken away...you are now "white as  
snow?"
 
In short, is it appropriate, in certain circumstances, provide a "USEFUL  
MYTH" that may be a necessary stepping stone, instead of the vaccuous and  
centerless 
nontheology of secular humanism?  
 
The risk I am taking in writing these words is not insubstantial.   Those 

reading this are my friends, clients, prospects, and among the people I  admire
most in the world.  
 
I sure don't want you, my chosen constituency, to view me as a turncoat and  
collaborator with the promulgators of right wing fundamental theology.  
 
But, guess what, folks?
 
There is NO equivalent infrastructure in the  
freethought/atheist/secular/skeptic/agnostic/rationalist
bright/humanist/cryonicist movements.  One can point to the Unitarian  

Universalists, or Ethical Union folks...but these don't measure up at all IMHO
infrastructure wise.  
 
So while I am appalled to read the blood drenched, traditional theology the  
Salvation Army espouses, I am also genuinely proud of the level of services  
and human needs they/we are meeting.  
 
So, while cryonicists and like minded rationalists develop our nascent and  
pioneering infrastructure, it is my intention to continue to be active on the  
board of the Salvation Army.
 
Please know that I am ambivalent about this...
 
Do I feel there is no argument between cryonics and religion, as my friend  

Brian W. asserts?  (Brian...sorry if this is misstatement of your  posting...it
is always easier to refute paraphrased "straw men." :)) 
 
No...I am afraid the coming culture wars are going to find a large number  of 
wedge issues here.  (Were talking the kind of "wedge issues" that people  

often kill each about...tragically.  Don't think the good folks who brought  you
the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition are going to be reasonable people  to 
deal with!)
 
I do agree with Brian and others who wisely state that a frontal attack on  

religion is idiocy, a fool's errand, and not what we want to do.   No  one like
to be "made wrong"...especially about their core beliefs.  We must  be more 
subtle, diplomatic, and wise.  Why can't we position cryonics as a  medical 

issue, a simple lifesaving technique devoid of any deeper meaning...and  can't 
we 
all just get along?  I kind of wish I was naive enough to still  think this 
could happen.  But few us are this out of touch with  reality.
 
Please know, however, that if we as a group are to have any acceptance by  
the "mainstream," it will certainly help if they know us to be genuinely good  

and sincere people. Individuals of character, integrity, intelligence,  working
within our community to make things better for everyone.  And this  may mean 
working within some systems we don't always agree with.
 
Meanwhile, someone once said,"Keep your friends close...and your enemies  
closer."  You may be interested to know I have a front row seat on what the  
religious right is doing.  And some of it is beyond awful...but some of it  is 

about the most cost effective social service infrastructure currently  
operating.
 
The good news is that cryonics is not even on the radar yet.  This  will 

eventually change.  As it has for stem cell therapy, cloning, and  other cutting
edge technologies.
 
Just like the end scene in the Terminator movie, where Linda Hamilton is  

heading to the mountains to escape the coming nuclear war.  The man pumping  gas
into her jeep says, with unknowing prescience, "There's a storm  coming."  
 
Linda's character states profoundly, with the deeper meaning understood by  
the audience, "I know."
 
Thanks for reading these ramblings.  My apologies if this or  yesterday's 
posting ticked anybody off past the necessary point of  thought.  As always, I 
could be wrong.
 
For Centuries,

Rudi
 
 
 


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