X-Message-Number: 26454
From: "David Pizer" <>
Subject: Reply forwarded
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:30:56 -0700


Dear Cryofriends:  On the subject of what should we do to level the playing 
field with religions and try to cause them to be more honest in their messages, 
here is one of the private replies that I received from a friend of mine.  I had
several supportive replies, but all of them were in private.




Religions and political organizations are still
largely immune from fraud claims, unlike businesses. I
know in business, a company can be sued for making
"forward looking statments" if things don't turn out
as well as some investors or customers thought they
would. Note, it doesn't even matter if the statements
are surrounded with lots of warnings and caveats, to a
great extent it's a subjective call on the part of the
investor or customer as to whether his interpretation
of a company's statements were too optimistic! Of
course, filing suit and winning are two different
things, but even defending yourself is costly in time,
money and reputation.

You are proposing to extend this kind of liability to
religious organizations. I don't know if this is
possible, but I would certainly welcome forcing them
to adhere to the same standards that they, and
everyone else, assume secular organizations must adopt
in our statements. Often, someone who is opposed to
cryonics asserts that we must prove it works, before
they will let it obtain. But, if that person is asked
for similar levels of real, physical evidence for
their mystical beliefs in the afterlife, they suddenly
get offended by our demands for "mere" worldly
evidence in support for thier position.

The only drawback I can see in filing such a suit, if
you can actually find legal standing to do so, is that
the religious groups being sued will instigate an
all-out war against cryonics organizations. They are
large and powerful, and we are small and weak. Do we
have the wherewithal to stand up against their
attacks? Don't forget, there are religious zealots who
murder abortion doctors, and others who will fly
airplanes into office buildings on the strength of
their beliefs.

On the other hand, maybe it is time that rational,
scientific people turn the tables on the mystics by
going on the offensive. Why shouldn't they be  held to
the same standards of proof that "mere" secular
organizations are held to? After all, if they are so
moral and pure, then surely their promises can easily
withstand the same demands of reasonable proof that
mere secular, non-divine corporations and individuals
are held to on a daily basis.

Especially if you can frame your legal assault so that
not all the cryonics community will be attacked, I
think you have a good idea, and the mere existance of
the suit will ignite real, society-wide debate
questioning the blank check that religious and other
mystical organizations seem to be able to draw against
the account of reasoned debate.

So I would be, in general, in support of your action.



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