X-Message-Number: 26469 From: <> Subject: reply Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 10:55:47 -0700 Reply to Beth from David Pizer I want to reply to Beth because her post was well written. BETH SAID: There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose by taking on religion. PIZER: If that is how you feel then I must conclude that you did not read my argument that concludes that millions of possibly billions of people may be missing out on extened life or virtual physical immortality because of a correctable mistake religions are making. Religions may be causing the very thing to happen they are trying to prevent. I don't see where fixing that problem falls under "nothing to gain." Can you explain your reasoning? BETH: Religion is based on dogma and indoctrination. Critical thinking is not encouraged. I have family members who are evangelicals. They take classes where they memorize bible passages as answers to the various questions and objections would-be converts have. PIZER: What has this to do with the horrible mistake they are making? BETH: Cryonicists tend to be more intelligent than average. PIZER: I used to think that until I some some of the ranting out of pure fear and devoid of any logic in response to my inquiry for advice on my possible proposal to try to straighten out the problem. BETH: As a cryonicist, you are adept in critical thinking and you recognize that science and technology will continue to transform society, for good or for ill. While the regular "Joe Six-Pack's" hobbies are drinking beer and watching NASCAR, your hobbies include contemplating the possibility of immortality. However, we live in Joe Six-Pack's world. Sometimes this is not a problem (you may like beer and car racing too). Other times a Jetson's versus Flinstone's world view can have serious repercussions. PIZER: In my case it is not "as a cryonicists." Not from what I've seen from some on this forum lately. BETH: When you talk to couples who have managed to stay married for the long-haul they will often say their success is based on two factors: 1. They have learned to pick their battles judiciously, letting most of the "little things" pass. And, 2. Both parties say "Yes Dear" a lot. PIZER: I think you missed the point I am trying to make. As long as the problem and conclusion my argument identifies continues to exist, millions or billions of people are losing their chance to avoid death. There is no more important battle for mankind. Can you name something more important than fixing a mistake that leads people to being dead forever when there might have been a chance to correct this? BETH: Cryonicists are on the cutting edge. Until society catches up with you, think of yourself as Leonardo Da Vinci or Benjamin Franklin, men who were way ahead of their time, but who also contributed positively to the world they were born into. What's your ultimate goal? Successful suspension / re-animation or convincing the world that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Big Foot, and God do not exist? PIZER: I can agree with that. Most of the time I realize that I am writing for the people of the future and what I a saying is going over the heads of most of the people who live today. Beth Baile Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26469