X-Message-Number: 26469
From: <>
Subject: reply
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 10:55:47 -0700

Reply to Beth from David Pizer

I want to reply to Beth because her post was well written.

BETH SAID:  There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose by taking on
religion.

PIZER:  If that is how you feel then I must conclude that you did not read my
argument that concludes that millions of possibly billions of people may be
missing out on extened life or virtual physical immortality because of a
correctable mistake religions are making.  Religions may be causing the very
thing to happen they are trying to prevent.  I don't see where fixing that
problem falls under "nothing to gain."  Can you explain your reasoning?


BETH:  Religion is based on dogma and indoctrination. Critical thinking is not
encouraged. I have family members who are evangelicals. They take classes
where they memorize bible passages as answers to the various questions and
objections would-be converts have.

PIZER:  What has this to do with the horrible mistake they are making?

BETH:  Cryonicists tend to be more intelligent than average. 

PIZER:  I used to think that until I some some of the ranting out of pure fear
and devoid of any logic in response to my inquiry for advice on my possible
proposal to try to straighten out the problem.


BETH:  As a cryonicist, you
are adept in critical thinking and you recognize that science and technology
will continue to transform society, for good or for ill.  While the regular
"Joe Six-Pack's" hobbies are drinking beer and watching NASCAR, your hobbies
include contemplating the possibility of immortality. However, we live in
Joe Six-Pack's world. Sometimes this is not a problem (you may like beer and
car racing too). Other times a Jetson's versus Flinstone's world view can
have serious repercussions.

PIZER:  In my case it is not "as a cryonicists."  Not from what I've seen from
some on this forum lately.



BETH:  When you talk to couples who have managed to stay married for the 
long-haul
they will often say their success is based on two factors: 1. They have
learned to pick their battles judiciously, letting most of the "little
things" pass. And, 2. Both parties say "Yes Dear" a lot.


PIZER:  I think you missed the point I am trying to make.  As long as the 
problem

and conclusion my argument identifies continues to exist, millions or billions 
of

people are losing their chance to avoid death.  There is no more important 
battle
for mankind.  Can you name something more important than fixing a mistake that

leads people to being dead forever when there might have been a chance to 
correct
this?

BETH:  Cryonicists are on the cutting edge. Until society catches up with you,
think of yourself as Leonardo Da Vinci or Benjamin Franklin, men who were
way ahead of their time, but who also contributed positively to the world
they were born into. What's your ultimate goal? Successful suspension /
re-animation or convincing the world that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the
Tooth Fairy, Big Foot, and God do not exist?



PIZER:  I can agree with that.  Most of the time I realize that I am writing for
the people of the future and what I a saying is going over the heads of most of
the people who live today.


Beth Baile

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