X-Message-Number: 26530
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 22:11:19 -0700
From: Mike Perry <>
Subject: Reply to David Stodolsky
References: <>

I  wrote:

> > No amount of either promotional efforts or legal action can
> > substitute
> > for the tangible progress that must be made.

David responded:

>This doesn't seem to be a limitation on the growth of other churches.

We recognized this issue a long time ago. Our tenets, we thought, should 
attract large numbers of people. We *did* have a possible approach to 
eternal life (cryonics) that, while not absolutely guaranteed to work, did 
at least have some quite substantial scientific arguments in its favor--as 
it seemed to us--so it was not necessary to place belief in supernatural or 
other superhuman forces. It seemed like it could be a winning 
combination--only it didn't come across that way, even among many who were 
wealthy so that cost was not a factor, and also atheistic to begin with. 
They just weren't interested.

>So, I suggest we look for the answer elsewhere.
>
>In terms of finances, the Society for Venturism offers no benefit,
>since members are required to be signed up first.

For a very good reason. The Venturist organization was set up as a 
religious organization. We had to be responsible to our members in a 
special way, and we didn't have the resources to bail them out and get them 
suspended if the need arose and they didn't already have arrangements.

>[snip]
>If we look at the problem from the standpoint of the sociology of
>religion, the elements required are institutions to administer rituals
>(including marriage ceremonies), a supportive worldview, and
>educational institutions.

The Venturist organization offers or could offer all that, but again the 
interest hasn't been there. (About half a dozen Venturist weddings have 
taken place, however, and we do certainly offer a supportive worldview.)

>[snip] An institutional framework that requires only a
>single signature to get you enrolled is what is needed (In fact, with
>many major religions, all you have to do is make a verbal declaration -
>not to mention that extremely bad things can happen, if you change your
>mind).

Such an institution had better not claim to be a cryonics-based *religious* 
organization--see above. On the other hand, institutions that seem to 
approximate what you are talking about exist already, such as Extropy 
Institute and Immortality Institute (not claiming to be religious 
organizations however).

Mike Perry

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