X-Message-Number: 29019 From: Gareth Nelson <> Subject: Re: [CN] Gareth Nelson and Cryonics Institute Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:28:23 +0000 References: <> What's not simple? If CI as an organization have learnt nothing than I am of course mistaken, but the facts are that some mistakes were made there and hopefully they have learnt something from this whole mess. I stated I was banned from membership as I was informed of this by Andy Zawacki: "We will refund your payments totalling $230.00. Please be advised that we will not accept future membership applications or dues payments from you." The fact that this may not be the case now does not matter to my initial complaint. I am glad that Ben Best considers I may be eligible for future membership (though understandably I am still planning on signing up with Alcor) and that he has learnt something from this mess (such as the fact that it's not a good idea to react in such a hostile manner to complaints from former supporters). To his credit, Ben does seem to have changed his attitude now and has been notably more polite. He still does not admit that the problem with my paypal payments was any fault of CI's but I cannot spend all day repeating the same facts. To all CI members, officers and directors - I wish you the best of luck, but please try to be more careful in future. If CI improves both in it's management and it's procedures then i'd consider joining again. I've had some major arguments in public but just want to let this matter go now. Ben - if you're reading this then please accept my virtual handshake, even if we both think it's the other guy's fault. On Thursday 25 January 2007 03:32, wrote: > For those who read no other cryonics-related forum than CryoNet, > three recent posts here might have been rather puzzling. The first, > 28718, on 12/5/06 by Ben Best, mentions a disagreement Nelson had > with CI over some Paypal payments for membership dues, that the > problem was due to Nelson's actions and nothing CI did, and his > apparently becoming unwelcome for future membership. In the second, > 28759, on 12/22/06 by Gareth Nelson, he states he is banned from CI > for reasons he considers unfair. In the third, 28867, on 1/10/07 by > Gareth Nelson, he states "I am glad to see that CI have at least > learnt something from this, that any organisation can make simple > mistakes ..." and "It's all as simple as that." > > Unfortunately, it is not all that simple. But I'll get down to that > in a moment. I should first explain that the reason that the only > three CryoNet posts which cover this issue leave the reader with a > lot of gaps in the story, is that it has been covered a length in at > least two other forums. > > It appears to have first been mentioned at www.imminst.org, also > cluttered with Depres' CI issues: > > http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=61&t=13456&st=0&#entry14 >1781 > > Nelson brought it up there, and Best's post here came after > that. Also, the matter was thoroughly explored on Cold Filter: > > http://www.network54.com/Forum/291677/message/1165391216/ > > In the Cold Filter thread, it is fully demonstrated that any errors > in Paypal payments had to be Nelson's fault, as only he could have > authorized any payments, correct or incorrect. Despite this fact, > Nelson still claims it is CI's fault. > > Ben Best, CI President, posted several times to Cold Filter, and > never admitted that CI did anything wrong or had anything to > apologize for; in fact, maintained the opposite at all times, > providing rationale for same. > > In the following post in a separate thread there, he also clarifies > that the "membership not welcome" issue was not a CI board decision > and elsewhere he stated that it is possible he would be approved for > membership if he were to reapply in the future: > > http://www.network54.com/Forum/291677/message/1168364965/ > > Since Nelson's posts here leave readers with a mistaken impression > that he is banned from CI membership and that CI made some "simple > mistakes," I felt it important to point out the above. If Ben Best > or any other CI officials have made any changes to what was most > recently stated on public forums that CI did nothing wrong and has > nothing to apologize for, they have not come forward with that here > or elsewhere. It has now been 2 weeks since Nelson's last post > claiming he is glad CI "learnt something," so I am assuming that CI's > last stated position remains the same. > > And rightly so, as demonstrated thorougly in the main Cold Filter thread. > > This whole thing is important to me in that I believe we should have > an accurate view of the integrity and reputation of the various > cryonics organizations. In this case, not mentioning the above would > have left an unwarranted negative mark on CI. > > Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=29015 > > > ############################################################# > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list <>. > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <> > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <> > To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <> > Send administrative queries to <> Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=29019