X-Message-Number: 2930
From:  (Robert Cardwell)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 21:59:59 +1000
Subject: CRYONICS Tradeoffs (carotid perfusion, etc.)

Thanks for your comments in message #2906, Mike. I would note though that
you have, since you instigated this thread, shifted your ground somewhat.
You started this off, in message #2840, with the remark:


>The more experience I get with "undercapitalized" groups of volunteers in 
remote
>areas (i.e., cut off from mainstream cryonics technology) the more I am coming
>to conclude that their VERY BEST strategy is to:
>
>a) Get a PIB (portable ice bath) and Squid (water pump cooling unit)
>b) build a dry ice box.

>c) cool the patient on ice ASAP and them FREEZE him/her in dry ice ASAP and 
ship
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to wherever for storage.
>
>As to the rest of the small groups (in the US and Canada) I think their very
...

Which is interesting, in light of your comments in another thread, in
message #2907, where you were discussing the effects of varying glycerol
concentration:

...
>And incidentally, I also have a collection of EM's from straight frozen brains

>and brains frozen with low concentrations of glycerol.  If you think that's the

>better approach, forget it!  A tissue homogenate *is* the operative description
>in these cases (at least after thawing -- an important caveat).

So, you refer here to evidence that straight freezing of the brain
produces "a tissue homogenate" (and opining that we should "forget it" as
the best approach) while in the earlier message you make the categorical
statement that the "very best" strategy for remote groups is to straight
freeze. Huh?

Be that as it may, you changed direction in message #2855, where you
wrote:

>After thinking about the Australian Group's situation in light of what Robert
>has said about their capabilities I would like to add the following thoughts.

And you then suggest perfusion via the carotids.

Finally, after I pointed out the glaring disparity between statements by
yourself and Steve Harris on the value of carotid perfusion, you wrote in
message #2906:

...
>One of things I regretted after posting my message was that I didn't weigh in
>print more carefully the tradeoffs.  Yes, there are *very* good reasons for
>using the aortic root when you can.  But, and this was my point, you may not
>always be able to do that without paying some other kind of price which may be
>higher.  Tough choices, huh?

Actually, what you did not do, at the beginning of this thread, was to
avoid making that sweeping and ill-considered statement, apparently borne
of ignorance and prejudice, suggesting straight freezing as the best
strategy for certain people. First, get your facts straight about the
people and situations you are commenting upon, Mike; only then is it
appropriate to speak of "tradeoffs."


Long life,
Robert

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