X-Message-Number: 2971
Date: 09 Aug 94 17:46:34 EDT
From: John de Rivaz <>
Subject: CRYONICS

re Terra Libra, is it run by a Con Mann?

I do not know the past record of Frederick Mann. If he has been associated with
business failures, then we need to know whether he failed because of deliberate
actions aimed to deceive, or whether it was because of the actions of others or
even his own ineptitude.

If it was through the latter two, then clearly he should be given another
chance.

If Terra Libra has been formed with the intent to deceive, then as it is a
network, it should be possible for people with honest intent, such as
cryonicists, to join in sufficient numbers to make it steer an honourable path.

********* NB *********

I would say with all unconventional ventures, regardless of the past history of

their originators, NEVER put in any more money that you can afford to lose. This
applies to cryonics, Venturism, extropy etc etc ie all of the things we are
interested in.

********* NB *********

One of the main parts of Terra Libra's program is to help people steer clear of
the dead hand of governments and professional groupings which have evolved to

extort money from the rest of humanity in return for nothing that is of any real
value. Such a program is clearly needed in most parts of the world, and some
would say most of all in the United States. If Terra Libra as it is at present
constituted and managed is in some way flawed, then it is up to other people to
start something similar without the flaws.

re Insurance:

The idea of cryonics societies running their own insurance service has been
covered many times in "Cryonics". Basically the objection is the professional
fees and costs associated with setting up an insurance company in the United
States, and indeed most reliable countries.

The profits to insurance companies are indeed high. They aim to get 30% pa on
their investments and give policyholders about 10 to 12% bonus as a result.
However they do have a duty to shareholders to make a profit - that is the
capitalist system. The capitalist system has been proved to be the best one we
know of to create genuine wealth.


My advice would be for cryonicists to use insurance only if they have to, and if

they do to use term insurance whilst building capital in an equity based savings

scheme, written in trust for their cryonics provider. Although you can make more
money by switching between equities and fixed interest, you have to be very
experienced to get it right and also you need some form of trust that avoids
capital gains tax charged on capital movements. If you are a long term holder,
then it would be better to be in equities rather than fixed interest, and I
would recommend finding a suitable mutual fund (unit trust in the UK) and
joining a savings scheme (ie monthly payments). The holding could be in joint
names of the client and cryonics provider, or the holding could be written in
trust. Ask your cryonics provider for details as to how to go about this. 

Do bear in mind that equities rise AND FALL and only over a long period of time
do you see the built in bias in favour of the investor. With a savings scheme,
when markets fall your monthly contribution buys more units, ie it is bargain
basement time. If you persist in buying during falling markets your losses
average out and you do very well during upturns.

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