X-Message-Number: 30200
References: <>
From: David Stodolsky <>
Subject: Re: religion again
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:14:32 +0100

On 20 Dec 2007, at 17:00,  wrote:

> DSS wrote in part:
>
>
>> churches are the primary vehicle for
>> cultural  change/inertia. And, as we have seen in recent years, the
>> main  thrust of conservatism is often the promotion of churches that
>> maintain cultural inertia
>
>
>
> This statement is contrary to the evidence, I believe.

You haven't familiarized yourself with the modern research on  
existentialism. Try:

ernestbecker.org

>
> For example, the Roman Catholic church is centered in Italy, and a  
> high
> percentage of Italians consider themselves Roman Catholic. The  
> church condemns
> contraception. Yet the use of contraception in Italy must be  
> nearly  universal,
> since it it highly unlikely that the rhythm method alone would   
> account for
> the low birth rate in recent times. Clearly not only the  
> Americans,  but also
> the Italians, are "cafeteria Catholics," picking and choosing   
> which doctrines
> they will follow. Similar remarks apply to most  Protestants.

If used correctly, the rhythm method is as effective as many  
contraceptives.

>
> Look at the U.S. The churches condemn atheism and most of them condemn
> homosexuality and some of them condemn heresy and some promise  
> hellfire for all
> non-Christians, and yet atheists and homosexuals and heretics and  
> non-Christians
>  walk and talk freely here. As far as I am aware, the single area  
> where
> religion  has had much influence on actual actions is the very  
> limited one of stem
> cell research.

This is the one most likely to benefit those currently reaching the  
end of their "natural" lives.

>
> Some make much of the reports of a high percentage of Americans who  
> call
> themselves believers. Yet many churches are shrinking and becoming  
> desperate.
> What people say and what they do are often vastly different.  
> Probably only a
> small percentage of those who call themselves believers actually  
> practice those
> beliefs (the ones unique to their religions) to any significant  
> extent.

I was just at a lecture on Science and the Modern World and the  
figure given for Americans believing in an immortal soul was over  
90%. I presume that cuts into membership in cryonics organizations  
pretty sharply.

>
> The real, practical influence of religion has declined fairly  
> steadily in
> Europe and America in recent centuries and decades, and the  
> churches have
> fairly steadily retreated from pervious positions at odds with  
> science, and I  see
> no sign that this trend will end.


There has been a resurgence in religious belief in the USA. A vast  
majority of people in the USA (84%) don't believe in the evolution of  
humans from lower species without the intervention of a supreme  
being, according to a recent Gallup Poll.

At the above mentioned lecture, it was pointed out that there has  
been very little effect on religious belief as a result of scientific  
advance, even among scientists.


dss


David Stodolsky    Skype: davidstodolsky

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=30200