X-Message-Number: 3110
Date: 11 Sep 94 10:26:48 EDT
From: David S Pizer <>
Subject: CRYONICS

CRYONICS 
 
Manana-Style Cryonics

From: Dave Pizer

I hope this can be my final reply to clarifying my belief on what
I interpreted as a slam by Dr. Steve Harris.  I replied in the
CRYONICS mode because that was where Dr. Harris originally made
his "manana-style cryonics" remark and that is the main concern I
had with his posting.  If anyone wants to discuss this any
further I suggest we move to the CRYONICS POLITICS mode.

Before I address Dr. Harris's remarks I would like to thank Mike
Darwin for his posting and I would like to reply to Charles
Platt.  I am glad Mike clarified that he is also working on
freezing research along with washout research.  There has been so
much emphasis on the washout part, and the fact that Mike has
said several times that he is focusing on marketable improvements
in contemporary clinical medicine that I did not realize that
Mike was also doing a lot of freezing research.  

I am going to be very careful about replying to Charles Platt
because his statements were so strange to me I am sure I must
have misunderstood them.  Charles wanted to know if I had
"evidence" concerning my statements that tissue/cells change (or
damage is done to them) after they drop below the freezing point. 
Then Charles further said "I really don't think anyone can be
certain about this."  Is there some doubt that FREEZING causes
damage and changes to the cells?

Before I get to the central point about the "manana-style
cryonics" remark I want to reply to 2 of Dr. Harris's more recent
statements.  Dr. Harris said something to the effect that thanks
to David Pizer and a few of Dave's friends (or perhaps cronies)
he could not have a BioPreservation suspension and an Alcor
(Arizona) storage.  Steve, you should find out which directors
have been willing to discuss all these types of issues before you
make a statement like this.  I am not going to discuss this
further and am not going to divulge confidentialities, but please
know your current facts before you make statements like that. It
is the whole Alcor Board that makes Alcor policy.  You may be
wrong about where I personally sit on this issue.

Also Steve, you hinted that I may have divulged a confidentiality
about who is going to freeze Mr. Ettinger in my discussions. I am
not going to elaborate further other than to assure you I did
not.

Now the bottom line:

What I objected to in Dr. Steve Harris's posting (at the end) was
what I perceived as a cheap shot (at someone, I don't know
exactly who) when Steve suggested that someone was doing
"manana-style cryonics" in Arizona. 
 
Steve and I have both been raised in the Southwest and we both 
know that "manana-style" in the context he used has a pejorative
meaning. 
 
The term originates from the Anglos' perception that the Hispanic
population is lazy and doesn't care about doing important things 
on time. 
 
The term would imply something like in a situation when a busy 
Anglo would say to a native Hispanic auto mechanic "When are you 
going to fix my car?" and the lazy native would say "Manana" 
(tomorrow) and then take a nap (called a siesta).  
 
By using the term "Manana-style cryonics" I get the impression 
that Steve is implying someone in Arizona could be doing cryonic 
stabilization faster but is too lazy and thinks it is OK to let a
patient lay around while they take a siesta and they will start 
the stabilization "manana."  

The only cryonics company doing business in Arizona is Alcor, so
if that is true of "someone" in Arizona it would be assumed it
was Alcor.  Even if the slam was meant against Mr. Ettinger or
someone else (and not against Alcor) it is still
counterproductive to cryonics in general to make a statement like
that.  To me it implies a "Holier than Thou" attitude and/or a
moral judgement.
 
If we are to increase our chances of survival we should continue
to trade useful information on Cryonet. If we slam newcomers they
might get discouraged and leave Cryonet. I like to read Mr.
Ettinger's comments along with the other people.

I have no quarrel with well-meaning, helpful criticism.  However,
until one of us develops full-blown reversible suspended
animation with an ultra safe storage facility and perfection in
all the other necessary areas, I think we should try to avoid the
moral judgments. 
 
Or, maybe I'm being too sensitive about it and it was not worth
mentioning?

Dave Pizer    

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