X-Message-Number: 31293
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:03:09 -0800
From: Gary Kline <>
Subject: community
> I have a practical question:: Let's say that my wife and I retire to
> somewhere near Alcor. Is there any kind of community _there_ who would
> volunteer to do the initial prep, ice me up and ship me to Michigan?
>
> Another point in my article suggests that it would be a win if at least
> there were a few/several places (globally) that might serve to help each
> of us when we exit this life temporarily. If not, our exit will be not
> eternal, or timeless, but infinite.
>
> A last note is to add my dime's worth about cryonicists being considered
> as 'nut cases'; that has not been my experience. Rather, people have had
> very skeptical reactions. Something like, "Hey is _that_ works, I've
> got a bridge to sell you... ." Occasionally less charitable: "Why can
> you just accept things and death like we all have to?" It may be that
> the folk I have mentioned my plan to are above average intellect or not
> biased to any extreme. But I've never made a big deal or tried to keep
> it hush-hush either. My reply has been: "I think it's worth a try."
>
> Again: any "community" around Alcor?
>
> thanks,
>
> gary kline
>
> To answer your question Gary, YES there is a growing community of
> cryonicists out here in Phoenix.
Since I moved out here back on May 11th of 2007, I was a little taken aback
that there was all but none at the time.
But like most deserts you have to dig a little to see the life that is there
right in front of you.
Hi Regina,
Got a kick out of that last, since the desert, my favorite geographical
locale, is teeming with life. I have not looked that hard up here in
Seattle, but figure that Must be at least two or three others! (More
seriously, my best SWAG in that there are a few thousand who dare to
risk the idea, but feel like the majority on this list and just keep
quiet. Also, given my disabilities, making contacts is problematic... .)
At this time, I run the local Phoenix Cryonics Meetup.com group where we get
together once a month always on the third Friday.
Its grown from 3 people when it started, to a core group of 15 + any newbies
that are passing through or interested. I encourage people that are planning
on visiting from out of town, to adjust their timing to allow them to attend
if they can.
When I give tours at Alcor, I pass out fliers that I made up for anyone that
wants to attend. Usually for people that are locals.
I'm getting on average around 3 to 5 new faces per month and many repeats.
That is just astounding! In other words, you are gaining, ballpark,
50 new people/year. Is this a valid assumption? [[ When I first met
Bob Ettinger online about 10 years ago, I mentioned that the number of
people interested in life-extension and-or cryonics likely would climb
when the Boomers were heading toward the kilometer-deep cliff.]]
Whether it's _age_ or that folks are starting to get a clue isn't that
important.
We hold the meetings for the Phoenix Cryonics meet up group at a house that
I live in that has been graciously provided by a British Alcor member,
who purchased the house to live in when he swings through America. Along
with me, are graduate students that live here in this house, that are
working for the Methuselah Foundation <http://www.methuselahfoundation.org/>.
They rotate through usually staying for 3 months and then they return to
school or what have you. We are now on our third shift of these very
inspiring twenty somethings. And when we have the Cryo meet ups, cryonicists
love to meet and talk with them.
Just wondering what fields these grad students are in. Of the people
I've talked to , those with a technical background seem a bit more
interested--and at the same time, more skeptical--than those with
other backgrounds. It's hard to generalize, and in the final analysis,
may be meaningless because the decisions we make are usually based on our
gut-feelings rather than the scientific possibilities or probabilities.
Chana De Wolf had originally started the Meetup.com group and she handed the
torch on to me when she and Aschwin moved to Oregon. The Cryonics Meet up
group is not just for Alcor members though. Alcor does not sponser it. I pay
for the website fees.
:-)
It is open to any cryonics members anywhere. And I am
personally fostering open cooperation with all. If we were to have CI
members attend, and they lived in the area, all they'd have to do is set up
with people in our community to make arrangements that would help in their
cryopreservations. As in all cryonics, its in the prep work that makes or
breaks it. No one is going to help though, if you don't open your mouth and
ask.
Ask and-or announce your plans. _And_ make certain the ideas, intentions
are understood by friends, family-that-will-listen, and one's SO.
Yes, you're right on the money that preparation is critical.
You have to be responsible for your own arrangements on who will be
your advocate when you go down. Logisitically, Alcor is not going to be at
your side if you go down unexpectedly. So everyone needs to have descussed
this ahead of time with whom ever you live with and is within arms reach of
you. And we go over that every so often with the group. I'm always looking
for good ideas.
I can offer some ideas, pref'ly off-list, and share my experiences.
But, in my idealistic-pragmatic mind, it boils down to volunteerism.
Whether than involves waiting at a deathbed for several day or volunteering
to run a local- or wide-area private computer network to coordinate things
as we grow.
Recently, I have made a connection with a member of the Methuselah team in
Tempe, who is very interested in media. So I have shoved a video camera in
her hands and we are now interviewing people who want to give testamonials
at the meetings, as to why they are a cryonicist and we will be up loading
them to You Tube in the future. Since that has just started, I have no
particular deadline for when they'll be up quite yet. But suffis it to say,
sometime in the near future. These testamonials may help play a role in
people's cryopreservations in the future. Alcor, and I know other orgs have
run into the ongoing issues of family sometimes proclaiming that the
individual didn't want to be cryopreserved. Having the ability to just walk
over to any terminal that is linked to the web and pull up the persons
testamonial of why they wanted it etc. etc. would have a powerful affect.
And shut down arguements before they can gain traction.
This is an outstanding idea. Having a cryonicist's wishes on camera
(and hopefully updated every now and then) would still the nay-sayers.
For people like me who are speech impaired legal documentation is a
solution.
The only caveats are that the/any website still be around in days, months,
or decades. And that the new DVD you have stored the video on is still
playable in years to come. ... .
I suggest to anyone
reading this, that if you are a cryonicist, that you think about doing the
same. If you are an "out of the closet" type cryonicists of course. Those
that are private about their arrangements still need to take some of this
into concideration.
I am now also working with Richard Leis from Tuscon, another Alcor member
and Transhumanist, like myself, with a Transhumanist once a month gathering
that we have every first Sunday of the month, which we hold at the Alcor
facility in the conference room. I give tours of Alcor afterward for any new
people that came for the transhumanism and stay for the cryonics. Each of
these is a potluck and is very fun. We show videos and we are now setting up
speakers to come and give talks. I have found that most people at these
gatherings I have, have not seen the amount of material that is on You tube
these days, regarding Transhumanism or cryonics. So I just set up a screen
and project from my laptop a few gems that I find during the rest of the
month. and then I encourage people to look up on their own, search terms
I'll put on the white board that we have in the conference room. It has
been very good for networking for Alcor also. I've found within the cryonics
group for example, a talent pool to draw on, for farming out small jobs that
we need accomplished at the Alcor facility. All of this is good for pulling
people together and just giving the set and setting that encourages
inspiration, collaboration and community.
Since the cryonics group started, we've had several members now that are in
the process of moving to Scottsdale or the greater Phoenix area because of
this.
For example, two very outgoing and charismatic members from Quebec, that
were profiled in the last Alcor Cryonics Magazine are making arrangements to
move here permanently. Stephane and Magdalee. I know of at least 3 others
that are doing the same.
We are starting to outgrow our current meeting places. So I am looking for
bigger venues.
Also, I announce at these gatherings any group outting that everyone may
want to go on.
Currently I have planned that there will be a caravan to the BIL Conference
in Long Beach coming up the first week in February.
And two I haven't really announced yet, but we will be doing. First the
traveling exhibit of the props and stage sets etc. from Star Trek that are
now at the Science Center. That's a must for me at least. I know we'll have
a nice crowd for that.
Very likely, given the hoards of Trekkies out there :-) In the final
analysis, isn't this more an issue that we cryonicists are people who have
trust (or faith) in humankind and The Future? As opposed to us being a
bunch of ``atheist kooks'' or whatever type of label others would tag us
with?
The way I see it, there _is_ bad publicity, but largely only in cases of
other than self-promotion. In the marketing of books, movies, or TV shows,
pretty much any publicity is a plus. It's a whole 'nother story in getting
across our message. Our message is not any kind of miracle of
raining-the-dead; it is something practical [if theoretical] of bringing
back those legally, clinically deceased. Something that is better not
"sold"--the way you sell, say, cans of tomato soup or a Jeep. People
interested in extending their lifespans have certainly found the appropriate
websites. Cryonics is still a bit sci-fi; that's my hunch.
I think the "old dead guys days" events, and the ones you have planned in
Long Beach are all to the good. ..I wonder if it would be possible to
create a website that is both catchy, and at the same time, gives the viewer
as much info as is available. Hmm.
and then in spring we're talking about a group trip to go check out
Arcosanti <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcosanti> that is 65 miles north of
Phoenix. The planned "futuristic" community that has been in existents since
I think the 70's.
So, yeah, we got some community going on.
Come visit!
I look forward to the visit, even tho it may be awhile. My better 2/3rds
finally agreed that she would honor my final wish and be dunked in a tank
of LN. But that kind of good-will only goes so far when retirement plans
hit reality. I cannot print her reaction to my suggestion of building a
place in Michigan; the electrons would melt. (We spent 8 winters in Wisconsin!)
For the time being, the web is a fine place to interact.
looking forward,
gary
www.meetup.com (search Cryonics Phoenix and you'll find us)
http://hplusclub.com/ (on left go to "Chapters" and you'll see)
Regina Pancake
PS: tx for the URL's.
--
Gary Kline http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org
The 2.17a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php
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