X-Message-Number: 31369
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:38:00 -0700
From: Kitty Antonik Wakfer <>
Subject: Re: #31363: Protection for cryonicists [david pizer]
References: <>

I am forwarding Paul's response to Dave Pizer.

On 01/31/2009 03:00 AM, CryoNet wrote:
> Message #31363
> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:33:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: david pizer <>
> Subject: Protection for cryonicists
>

> The following is written in an informal style.  It is the very early stage of 
opening a discussion to the cryonics community to solicit your ideas, 
suggestions and expertise in the matter of its subject.
>
>

> The Venturists Directors have been considering allowing the Society for 
Venturism to hold power of attorney from cryoncists (for those cryonicists who 
want to give it) to act on their behalf should they ever get in a similar 
situation as some past cryonicists have found themselves in - mainly where 
non-cryoncists or anti-cryoncists have legal control of their body.
>

> If the idea becomes reality a cryonicst could give the Venturists power of 
attorney in sickness or at legal death to make decisions for them.  So if, for 
instance, you ended up in a mental state where you could not assert your desire 
to be frozen and there were others who legally had the right to make decisions 
for you that were not going to get you frozen, we could take control and try to 
see that your cryonics wishes were honored.
>
>   
[snip]

Dave,

First, most states and Canadian provinces have both Power of Attorney 
(which is generally only about material assets) and Power of Attorney 
for Health Care provisions. If these are done correctly, they should be 
essentially incontestable (unbreakable) by any lawsuits from relatives, 
even spouses.
Second, during the operation of CryoCare I and Bob Krueger (and others) 
did a lot of thinking and working on a setup called the Patient Advocate 
(PA). Briefly, this was a legal entity (think of it as a trust) that was 
composed of trusted friends of a cryonicist and the founding document of 
which contained a method of extending its existence in perpetuity by 
acquiring new members of the group to replace old ones as they too were 
cryopreserved. The PA's purpose was to see that the patient's wishes and 
welfare, as s/he had best communicated in writing to its members, were 
carried out and met. The PA would hold both types of Power of Attorney 
and would assume effective control of the cryonicist if s/he became 
incompetent and when s/he was cryopreserved. The PA was the legal owner 
of the cryopreservation patient's human remains (rather than the 
cryonics organization) and had the ability to move him/her from one long 
term care service provider (currently only multiple-service cryonics 
organizations) to another if necessary.

I still have records of the details that I and Bob Krueger had worked 
out just before CryoCare was terminated and which, because of that and 
related events, never became an official part of the CryoCare structure. 
These include a very detailed agreement that the cryonicist and his/her 
chosen PA members would all execute to initiate the PA, and included the 
details of how the PA would be self-perpetuating until the cryonicist 
was restored to life.

--Paul


> Sincerely,
>
> David Pizer  
> For the Society for Venturism
>   
>

**Kitty Antonik Wakfer

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