X-Message-Number: 3159
From: 
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 94 19:42:51 EDT
Subject: SCI. CRYONICS determinism

Even though the practical, immediately important work is stacked up, I can't
resist taking a break for a few comments on Mike Perry's interesting posting
last week (#3118) on determinism.

1. If determinism proves out, and with it the theoretical possibility of
recovering all the information about every past person, that would by no
means make cryonics "superfluous" even in an "ultimate sense"--in part,
because the possible may never become the feasible; in part, because long
delays bring many kinds of practical uncertainties, including those of
motivation; and in part because of possible "philosophical" (as well as
psychological) problems of identity and survival. It is not only a question
of coming back "sooner" but perhaps--very likely--of coming back at all.

2. "Action at a distance" as opposed to local (field type) influence is a
very unclear distinction. It is by no means clear how much space (or
spacetime) a "particle" occupies, for one thing. Can a "particle" only be
influenced by a field, or portion of a field, that "touches" it? Even in that
case, the (infinitesimal?) touching portion of the field has to be influenced
by--has to "know" about--conditions elsewhere. ...Some say we should just use
the formalism and not worry about "interpretation," since interpretation is
just our ill-advised attempt to use our habitual labels and other language
habits where they are not appropriate.  But that seems like a cop-out.

3. Mike's "inaccessible determinism" is a very real possibility--but PROOF of
fundamental inaccessibility will be hard to come by. It is a little like the
question of asking God to prove he is God. There is no way He could prove it,
as far as I can see--short of sharing the Godhead. Passing "miracles" won't
prove it; if someone can work wonders, that only proves he is a
wonder-worker, not that he is omnipotent/omniscient or as close as allowable.
 He could make us believe it, of course--it is easy to make people believe
almost anything. But PROVE it? I don't see how. 

4. I have sent for a recently advertised book, THE PHYSICS OF IMMORTALITY by
 Frank J. Tipler. According to the blurbs, he speculates that in a closed
universe, as it contracts toward the Omega Point, infinite subjective time
will be available and the advanced beings of that time will be able to revive
everyone who ever lived. He tilts this toward religion in some manner,
supposedly without abandoning physics or requiring faith.

Robert Ettinger

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3159