X-Message-Number: 3249 Date: 11 Oct 94 23:58:28 EDT From: David S Pizer <> Subject: CRYONICS Reply to Charles Platt: 1. Charles, I am sorry, but I never received Mike Darwin's posting #1627 about the history of CSNY patients you referred to. About the time I had brought up the subject of CSNY before, there were some postings from a lady named something like Clarissa Wells that insulted me and hurt my feelings so bad that I left the net. The #1627 posting must have been posted just after I left the net. I have asked Kevin for a copy of that. Thank you. By the way, I have since been told that Clarissa Wells was a false name used by someone in a dishonest way by making statements and observations that were supposed to look like they came from a newcomer to cryonics and were therefore supposed to have been based on logical conclusions alone. Charles, do you know who the person was that was doing this? 2. I am sorry, but I have never been sent any of the information on CryoSpan or CryoCare or any of your other organizations. I know that you have sent unsolicited information to lots of other people. I would like you to send me All the information (old and new) on all of your companies and sub-contractors. Please send to David Pizer, 1547 W. Dunlap, Phoenix Az 85021. (Thank you) 3. You said I could find out about what really happend when Saul went out of business by making one phone call (you said it would take one hour). Who is it and what is the number I can call to get this information? Please, don't tell me it is Saul Kent because he has refused to give anyone any information on this (except, perhaps, you). 4. You said that Saul was not responsible for CSNY and CryoSpan closing up at the end. Who was? Why was Saul no longer responsible when CSNY went out of business? Surely, you are not going to suggest that Saul was totally unresponsible just because he walked away just before they went out of business? 5. You said that Saul went out of business for lack of people paying him, and Nelson went out of business because of a successful lawsuit against him. It is my recollection that the suit was filed after Nelson went out of business and was filed because he went out of business and let patients thaw. If you still feel this way, could you supply the dates you are relying on? 6. You said that Kevin told you he mailed me a note informing me that I had made a mistake in my posting and got CryoCare confused with CryoSpan. That is true. Unfortunately I read Kevin's note after he posted my posting. Kevin knows that. I received his corrections after he had posted my posting to the public. 7. In the matter of trying to get to the bottom of what happened, why would it seem unreasonable that people who's lives are at stake would want to know what happened? 8. Trying to uncover history is a personal effort of mine and does not involve Alcor. I am sorry if you ever got the impression that it was anything else. I am writing an article on structures of cryonics organizations and trying to study the history and then list the pros and cons of each one to see what is really best. My motivation is that I don't want to die. 9. Lastly, please don't get so angry when someone tries to find out what happened. I have spent time interviewing other people who were successful and unsuccessful in cryonics. The ONLY reason I am spending so much time on CSNY is that none of them seem to want to discuss it. That tends to make me more curious. You must have been as curious as I, because you also asked to interview Saul. In fact you have Saul's version written down. You were going to write a book or article on this, then you changed your mind. You interviewed Saul on this subject, if you really want the truth to come out on this, why don't you just post the information he gave you and let's get on with it. Thank you Dave [ It's amazing how a few miscommunications can cascade to an orgy of flames and mutual suspicion! Frankly, it's not my job to correct other people's mistakes, for several important reasons that I won't go into here, but when I noticed that unfortunate paragraph in Dave Pizer's message #3233 Monday morning, I quickly sent an email reply to him expressing my surprise and letting him know how he could change (or cancel) it before mailblast time, if he chose to do so. Unfortunately, he didn't check his email until it was too late. In retrospect, a phone call probably would have been better in this case, but email is all I'm willing to do and that's only if I happen to read the messages before mailblast time and notice something potentially wrong. Years ago I would try to call people and I found that it put too much of a burden on me, so I don't do it anymore. Message #3233 went out, unchanged, because I'm not going to be censor, or even editor. Again, there are several reasons for that, which I won't go into here. Note: I'll occasionally add notes to the end of messages or remove duplicate messages, but changing the content of messages is another matter. Another miscommunication revealed itself in Charles Platt's second message last night. Charles didn't know that Dave Pizer didn't read my Monday morning reply (to Dave) before the Monday night digest went out. When I quickly scanned the email shortly before mailblast time last night, among the several new messages that had arrived, including his second message, there were two duplicate messages that I had to fix promptly, so _that_ is what I did. In the future, perhaps I should make a point of never responding to any messages before mailblast time. Everyone will be on their own, all the time, just as on USENET. Sometimes, such as in this case, my attempts to help fix a potential problem and prevent a flame war just don't work and instead cause confusion about who said what when. If people wish to continue this thread, I suggest the CRYONICS.POLITICS area as the best place for that. Frankly, I think it's better just to drop it now and attribute this brouhaha to miscommunication (following some ill-considered public speculation) rather than focus on alleged evil intent behind the messages. Remember, never ascribe to maliciousness that which can be adequately explained by stupidity^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H miscommunication. :-} Once we're speaking in a civil manner again I'll tell everyone about the new, exciting development I had planned to announce this week but which got derailed by this spat. - KQB ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3249