X-Message-Number: 32621 From: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:51:34 EDT Subject: Quick fixes etc Not that it's important, but it's a minor irritant, so I'll say a bit about Platt's assertion that I believed for many years in a quick fix. In one sense at one time--in the beginning--I believed that my first book would work magic, but we all learned better. In the Visser case, we took precautions and there was support at Alcor as well as CI, but it was still a blunder. Mainly, however, for many years I have tried to influence people not to look for magic mass marketing solutions, but to keep on doing what we know works somewhat, namely, working patiently and lovingly with your own relatives and friends. There are still lots of unknowns, and it remains possible for new blood or new ideas to make a difference, or for some celebrity conversion to resonate. Platt had his own share of quick fix ideas, including the Omni contest, which was a worthy effort even though a failure. He has also caught a lot of heat for his reported failures and wrong-headedness at SA. I could cite lots of complaints about him, but what's the point? He apparently has the ear and confidence of Kent and Faloon, with plenty of funding, so if he ever finds a better approach presumably we'll know about it. As I have said repeatedly in recent years, progress is slow but membership and patient numbers have been accelerating, albeit off a very small base. In any case, it's the only game in town for those who reject delusion. Robert Ettinger In a message dated 6/13/2010 5:00:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, writes: CryoNet - Sun 13 Jun 2010 #32613: Re: Silver Platters Ignored... [robomoon] #32614: Re: Silver Platters Ignored, in Cryonics [John de Rivaz] #32615: Re: Silver Platters Ignored, in Cryonics [David Stodolsky] #32616: The Enduring Myth of One Quick Promotional Fix [Charles Platt] #32617: The Enduring Myth of One Quick Promotional Fix [John de Rivaz] Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32613%2D32617 Administrivia To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to: with the subject line (not message _body_): subscribe To unsubscribe, use the subject line: unsubscribe To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to: from the same address to which you are aubscribed. Send questions, comments, or feedback to with "CryoNet" or "cryonics" somewhere in the Subject line. Message #32613 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:32:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Subject: Re: Silver Platters Ignored... Regarding progress: right, compared to something like electronics there was little progress in cryonics over the last 40 years. And it would be no wonder if there are no useful statistics available to check if the pace of technical progress in comparison to it's financial progress has slowed down for more than 50 Percent over the last 20 years. Yes, that's something those on the payroll at some cryonics organizations can happily bear. Regarding economics and my personal payroll, it actually occurs to me that I belong to a social class of the one Percent of citizens with the lowest financial income in Germany. For more than ten years I have tried to earn more money so I could afford to sign up for cryonics without being a burden to my family and their own needs my income has to fulfill. But as I grew older, I even got more ill than before, so after I lost my last job opportunities more and more, I got retired anyways. No resources, not even http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/tradecommunity could pull the nuggets out of nowhere for me. The other way in economics I tried is to make cryonics cheaper - see all the messages robomoon posted to CryoNet, Cold Filter, ImmInst, and related forums. Of cause, there was success to get in contact with Russian providers KrioRus and CryoFreedom, but the communications with them are limited due to their small staffing. Despite or because of there apparently low funding requirements they don't have much business sense to work out an extra cheap contract arrangement with all the details required to make payments easy and convenient. Cryonics and payroll are close together, despite of various individuals telling me how cheap it can be with Life Insurance (as if everyone in the world can easily get a cheap one). Thank you, Melody Maxim, very much for that! So we see it's the wrong time to tell people like me I'm a deathist, let's talk payroll instead! /// -- WM 2010: Top News, Spielplane, Public Viewing-Termine, E-Cards und alles, was der Fan sonst noch braucht, gibt's im Sport-Channel auf arcor.de. http://www.arcor.de/rd/footer.wm2010 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32613 Message #32614 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Silver Platters Ignored, in Cryonics Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:22:36 +0100 What really needs to be done if this is to be taken seriously is to get a list of firms and qualified individuals willing to participate and a schedule of costs. Then compare this to the salaries that are being paid to the people Melody considers unsuitable, and put this to the LEF, and see if they would be interested in altering their grant structure. I have a horrible suspicion that firms and individuals willing to participate could not be found, and/or that the figures would not add up, but I could be totally wrong. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more Content-Type: text/html; [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32621