X-Message-Number: 32843
From: "Jens Rabis" <>
References: <>
Subject: AW: CryoNet #32842
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:25:38 +0200

Dear cryofather Robert, 

I hope that after our resurrection come to quarrel: Who is as an
ex-individual really resurrected? The biological, biomechanical, mechanical
or Uploader. Or the mixture of all states. That would mean ... that the
Cryonic was successful *grin*
Important question is: Is there a written last will, such as cryo-customers,
cryo-friends, cryo-family members want to resurrect?!

Your Cryoson Jens


*****************

Lieber Cryovater, 

ich hoffe dass es nach unserer aller Wiederauferstehung zu einem Streit
kommen wird. 
Wer ist wirklich als Ex-Individuum wiederauferstanden? Die Biologischen, die
biomechanischen, die mechanischen oder Uploader. Oder die Mischung aus allen
Zustanden.
Das wurde bedeuten, dass die Cryonic erfolgreich war *0grinst*
Wichtige Frage dazu: Gibt es einen schriftlichen letzten Willen, wie
Kryo-Kunden, Kryo-Freunde, Kryo-Familienmitglieder wieder auferstehen
wollen?!

Dein Cryosohn Jens
Germany-Berlin






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Auftrag von CryoNet
Gesendet: Montag, 20. September 2010 11:00
An: 
Betreff: CryoNet #32842

CryoNet - Mon 20 Sep 2010

    #32842: The Soul as Code [Ettinger]

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Message #32842
From: 
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:15:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The Soul as Code

Mark Gubrud, U. of Maryland, has a piece in The New Atlantis on  why 
transhumanism won't work, including why uploading won't work
 
I  wasn't terribly impressed with his approach, but it reminded me  that 
what uploaders are saying, in slightly different language, is that while
the 
word "soul" is taboo, you can use words like "pattern identity" which  
essentially mean pretty much the same thing. They claim your essence is a  
pattern, which can be instantiated as a computer code. (They conveniently  
overlook the continuity and long term implications.)
 
Well. not many people today use the word "ontology" in connection with  
their pet subjects, but the notion of uploading is at base a question in  
ontology. What does it mean to be, to exist? The latest fashion holds that  
nothing exists, or everything exists, since information is everything, and  
information, or potential information, is  everywhere and  indestructible.
 
Oddly enough, I agree that probably there is a law of conservation of  
information--at least, that it cannot be destroyed, even if it can be
created.  
On a practical level, it means that there is some chance of recovering all 
your  personal information eventually, even if your brain is incinerated. 
But, as  they say, don't hold your breath.
 
So far, Platonism is holding on fairly well. Most people believe that math, 
 for example, is discovered, not invented. But this is probably just 
dancing,  since anything "invented" had to be there already, at least
potentially.
 
To many all this seems like mental masturbation, but it does have practical 
 implications, such as whether or not you should pay the price for  
cryonics.
 
Robert Ettinger

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