X-Message-Number: 33178
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: Stephen Girard's trust still exists.
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 12:07:28 -0000

Possible reasons this trust may exist and thrive:

1. It was drawn up over a hundred years ago when the body of law was much
smaller
2. The benefactor was the richest man in America at the time and therefore
could have spent more on lawyers that most people could hope to earn in an
entire lifetime.
3. The trust was for entirely charitable purposes. If it had been in favour
of his descendants (the nearest thing to a cryonics revival trust) the
outcome could have been very different.
4. The trust is big enough to pay for the professional fees in running it as
well as providing an income for its charitable purpose.

I am not aware of any cryonics revival trust that is a "money grubbing scam"
for the cryonicists that organise it. However the realities of the level of
professional fees required to start and manage it with the level of legal
safety required may make the system as a whole appear so. Or looking at it
in a less emotional way, such trusts could only be for very rich
cryonicists, beyond even the slightly rich.

There are undoubtedly many professionals getting rich on Mr Girard's trust,
but they are being paid what is presumably the market rate for their
services. The big thing to remember is that the market rate depends more on
the fact that the trust exists as opposed to how much money there is in it.
There must be a figure beyond which these costs remain more or less the
same, and eventually trusts can have so much money in them that they can
grow and/or provide an income that is little diminished by these costs.

There must be a figure at which such a trust would become viable, but I
would be guessing to suggest one. Maybe someone else on this list can
suggest one without so much guesswork. As the same level of urgency is not
present as with cryopreservation fees, the assets for the trust could be
transferred by Last Will and Testament. Any trust organisation that suggests
otherwise could be viewed with suspicion. The patient would lose nothing by
Will transfer, but a pre-mortem transfer would lose him the use of the
assets.

As well as meeting legal requirements, it would need the services of a good
stockbroker to maintain a portfolio which services don't come cheap. When
shares go up he may get a bonus. But when they go down he is unlikely to
give a discount. A selection of mutual funds could be used, but over
centuries even this would require some management. Alternatively, land or
buildings could be considered. However it would be difficult to get rents to
cover maintenance, fees and taxes over centuries. Parts would have to be
sold off, giving rise to more fees and taxes. Speculative tracts of land in
places like Alaska would still require some management, and of course they
could still be worth very little when the patient is revived.

--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

----- Original Message ----- 
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Message #33175
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 15:38:53 -0700
Subject: Stephen Girard's trust still exists.
From: MARK PLUS <>

The people who view cryonics revival trusts as a money grabbing scam
might want to explain why the trust set up by early American financier
and freethinker Stephen Girard still exists after he died in 1831, and
still provides income for the college he established in his will:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Girard



http://www.citytrusts.com/Financial%20Reports/Girard%202010%20FinanciaL%20Statements.pdf
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