X-Message-Number: 33346
From: "Jens Rabis" <>
Subject: AW: #33342: DNJ article highlights [Ettinger]
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:53:24 +0100

Hi Cryonauts,

Oh I would like to participate in discussions. What is understood that:
under the earth bring, buried, burial, funeral ....
You can the "dead" under the earth bring, together with a Dewar and liquid
nitrogen or an ultra-freezer (-152 degrees Celsius). Ok if religion says
those are dead, no problem. This has advantages for many personal and social
issues.
But I have become a problem of conscience to support mental the freeze of
deaths (more than a few minutes at room temperature) or died of decrepitude.
What other religion will not allow ... bites himself - scientifically
speaking - in the tail.

Unfortunately, I had a translation error here ( #33265: Professor Ulrich
Kutschera - shock-freeze a living person ...... [Jens Rabis]): It must mean
decrepitude(!!!) and not old age(!!!)
Quote: "... Ulrich Kutschera. The renowned professor of evolutionary biology
at the University of Kassel and at Stanford (USA) is familiar with the
cryo-preservation of living beings - it is part of his daily business as a
researcher ...
Who dies of old age (decrepitude!!!), and remains dead "Even if a person can
be conserved then accordingly - can revitalize the dead are no longer ."...
Is feasible from a scientific point of view only that shock-freeze a living
person leave. This could to thaw after a few centuries back and reanimate.
"Provided, of course, would have the appropriate technology for this,
"restricts Kutschera. 
The, he says, but it will probably be in 20 to 30 years ..." End of Quote,
http://www.n-tv.de/wissen/Der-Tod-eine-ueberwindbare-Grenze-article2403861.h
tml

***

Oh da wurde ich gern mitdiskutieren. Was versteht man unter: unter die Erde
bringen, begraben, Bestatten, Begrabnis ....
Man kann die "Toten" unter die Erde bringen, zusammen mit einem Dewar mit
flussigen Stickstoff oder einer Ultra-Tiefkuhltruhe (- 152 Grad Celsius). 
Ok wenn die Religion sagt, das sind Tote, kein Problem. Das hat Vorteile fur
viele personliche und gesellschaftliche Fragen. 
Ich habe aber inzwischen ein Gewissensproblem, das Einfrieren von Toten
(langer als ein paar Minuten bei Raumtemperatur) oder an Altersschwache
Gestorbenen mental zu unterstutzen. 
Was anderes wird die Religion aber nicht zulassen ... sie beisst sich -
wissenschaftlich gesehen - selbst in den Schwanz.

Leider hatte ich hier ( #33265: Professor Ulrich Kutschera - shock-freeze a
living person ...... [Jens Rabis]) einen Ubersetzungsfehler gemacht: Es muss
bedeuten decrepitude (Altersschwache) und nicht old age (und nicht hohes
Alter)

Quote: "... Ulrich Kutschera. The renowned professor of evolutionary biology
at the University of Kassel and at Stanford (USA) is familiar with the
cryo-preservation of living beings - it is part of his daily business as a
researcher ...
Who dies of old age (decrepitude!!!), and remains dead "Even if a person can
be conserved then accordingly - can revitalize the dead are no longer ."...
 Is feasible from a scientific point of view only that shock-freeze a living
person leave. This could to thaw after a few centuries back and reanimate.
"Provided, of course, would have the appropriate technology for this,
"restricts Kutschera. 
The, he says, but it will probably be in 20 to 30 years ..." End of Quote,
http://www.n-tv.de/wissen/Der-Tod-eine-ueberwindbare-Grenze-article2403861.h
tml


Best greetings
Jens Rabis
Germany-Berlin
"The time is with us, we can ... more! Life is for my ... curiosity :-)
Cryonics is not ... immortality!"




    #33342: DNJ article highlights [Ettinger]

Message #33342
From: 
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:04:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: DNJ article highlights

The (weekly) Detroit Jewish News issue of Feb. 17 has a feature article on
cryonics and the Cryonics Institute, and I now have a paper copy.
 
The writer is Shelli Liebman Dorfman, who makes an effort to be fair,
although she doesn't offer a good account of the evidence in support of
cryonics  and barely refers to the CI web site, without naming it. The main
negative  bits were in the obligatory quotes by "authorities" in science or
religion, as  well as some lay opinions. 
 
The rabbis quoted said the practice is against the Jewish  religion,  which
requires quick burial. In ancient times, of course, a corpse left out in the
heat of a day in Israel would quickly bloat and stink, so common sense at
that time demanded quick burial. Similarly, ancient practicalities underlie
the  dietary laws. How many modern Jews will pay attention to the ancient
custom is  conjecture, but I suspect this, if it ostensibly occurs, will in
most cases be only an excuse for a deeper aversion. We'll see if there is
any noticeable response from readers in the form of queries to CI or new
memberships.
 
At any rate, here are some of the writer's comments, paraphrased:
 
Joe Kowalsky, raised in an orthodox Jewish home, is a member of the Board of
Directors of CI, and explains why he thinks it is not against his religion.
 
David Ettinger, CI's main attorney, gave  his first public interview  on
cryonics at age 12. His wife Constance, also an attorney, is a member of its
Board of Directors.
 
Cryonics is not illegal anywhere in North America.
 
Minimum cost of $28,000 at CI is correctly stated.
 
Of three local Jewish funeral home spokesmen, two said they had received
questions about cryonics but not requests for such service.
 
The CI system does not depend on electric power, although there is an
emergency generator.
 
CI patient population is given as 102 (since up one to 103).
 
Cryonics does not offer eternal life or any guarantees, but  hope for
extended life without senescence. 
 
Answers are given to population control questions and questions of
readjustment of revived patients. 
 
One rabbi said that a person is either dead or alive, with no middle ground.
 
--So, perhaps enough here to arouse interest in some readers. We'll  see.

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