X-Message-Number: 3615
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: CRYONICS: re #3594-#3607
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 21:56:06 -0800 (PST)


Hi!

A number of interesting postings:

1. I like Brian Wowk's suggestion of a very highly endothermic reaction 
   better than my own. (Though I would say that the area of knowledge needed
   is really Chemistry rather than nanotechnology --- for those who refuse
   to consider advanced chemistry as a form of nanotechnology). There are
   several ways to set off the reaction once you have the chemicals 
   needed (the main problem, of course!). You might want to keep them 
   separate in two different nanosized containers made of a substance that
   breaks down when it receives a light pulse (or even perhaps a sound 
   pulse) of just the right frequency. Alternatively, the two chemicals 
   (say there are only two involved, each with a complex structure) might
   be held in one state such that on a shock they will react with one 
   another. That state may involve them actually being chemically linked
   to one another, but unstable. Getting them into the patients body would
   basically be done by similar methods of perfusion to those done now.

2. Identity is important, though in itself I don't see that the philosophical
   problems are unsolvable. Basically, so long as I am not aware of any
   change, I think it would be unreasonable to claim that my identity had
   ceased. My own problem with uploading comes with the question of whether
   or not, using the current sense of the word "computer", it is even POSSIBLE.

   We don't yet know (in a solid way) just what form long term memory storage
   takes. One possibility IS the growth of new connections; on a very small
   scale, some synapses before and after LTP (and after LTP has disappeared)
   appear to have changed their physical structures in ways which MAY
   relate to memory... becoming more prominent, and ending up on stalks that
   stick up out of the nerve cell surface.  (How this would encode memory
   I don't know but it does happen). Much more extreme modifications, such
   as the outright growth of new synapses, may happen too. (All this is 
   right now very hard to verify technically).

   But if (for instance) we DO remember by growing new connections, then 
   there will be a hard problem in designing a computer to match such 
   behavior: rewiring itself constantly? I said "computer" here because I
   see no basic problem in producing the same  behavior, including the 
   rewiring, using quite different materials.

   I will also point out that Bob Ettinger, in his book THE PROSPECT OF
   IMMORTALITY, written in the late 60's (or at least widely available
   by then) has a long section in which he discusses the problem of identity
   with many (I suspect even ALL) the stories about brain replacement 
   which philosophers are now using. Even though he was terribly wrong
   about how quickly cryonics will catch on, he still grappled with many
   of the issues that current philosophers are only now starting to notice.
   If nothing else, he deserves credit for that.

3. Spreading cryonics is very hard. To the lurker who works with accounting
   and economics, I will say: there are a few wealthy people in cryonics 
   already. But he has simply explained the chicken and egg problem in 
   different clothes (to mix metaphors). If we had lots of millionaires
   (which we don't) spreading cryonics would be easy (which it is not).
   One way of thinking of the problem, of course, would be to say that 
   if we had lots of millionaires cryonics will have ALREADY spread and
   the job is complete.

   Incidentally, I believe that cryonics does not --- definitely does not ---
   require the agreement of even a high percentage of those living to 
   work --- or even a relatively LOW percentage, say 10%. Sure it would be
   very nice, and if it does work then we will all sometimes look back
   with a feeling of shock at the many many people who passed us by in
   their ignorance, who are now vanished forever --- not just strangers
   but friends and neighbors and lovers, who just could never bring them-
   selves to reach out. And we would feel like the survivors of a holocaust
   far more extreme than mere human beings have ever imagined or performed.

				Long long life,

					Thomas Donaldson

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