X-Message-Number: 3626 From: Peter Merel <> Subject: CRYONICS identity Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:28:29 +1100 (EST) Bruce Zimov writes, >The world and the way sound like what Kant called the phenomena >and the noumena. I'm afraid my Kant isn't what it might be, but a quick look at my Boy's Bumper Book Of Philosophy suggests that they're not much alike. I'd class Kant's noumena as abstractions within the Taoist "world", along with the phenomena; the Taoist "way", being beneath abstraction, is not an aspect of things as such, nor even "things in themselves"; it is more a limit on apprehension itself than a thing or things unapprehended. But read Lao Tse for a good definition (I'd suggest Robert Henricks' recent translation of the Ma Wang-Tui text) >That aside, preserving the pattern ensures >you can upload by copying, preserving qualitative identity, but >not numerical identity. I'm not certain exactly what you mean with qualitative and numerical. >There is no extra-corporeal self. I guess I'm suggesting that 'the self' is simply a useful abstraction of "the world", in the same way that 'the wind' is a useful approximation to the complex motion of the air. 'The self' has that 100% concrete feeling of reality within 'the world', because all of the elements of 'the world' are likewise abstract. >Rejecting dualism does not solve the identity problem. I don't believe there can be a solution that does not require a leap of faith. That leap is exactly your statement above - "There is no extra-corporeal self". Accepting this, what problem is there? Not accepting this, what solution can there be? As to rejecting dualism, again I'm not certain what you mean. >See Parfit, >Reasons and Persons Part III. Parfit's view is that identity >is not what matters in uploading. I disagree with that. I'm afraid I don't have Parfit handy, nor is he in my Boy's Bumper Book. Why does he suggest that identity is not important, and why do you disagree? -- Internet: | Accept Everything. | http://www.usyd.edu.au/~pete | Reject Nothing. | Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3626