X-Message-Number: 3673
From: 
Subject: CRYONICS Failures and Jokes
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 23:25:47 PST

In article: <3eq5ce$>   writes:

> Steve Harris mentions the factor of FEAR of cryonics, as opposed to mere
> skepticism, and I am sure that plays a part, and have discussed it at some
> length. 
> 
> He also observes, along with myself and others, that people in cryonics 
tend
> to be--crudely speaking--failures IN THEIR OWN ESTIMATION, people who have
> not achieved the success or recognition to which they aspired--even though
> they may be successful enough by ordinary standards. Even a very rich man
> might fit this description. 
> 
John de Rivaz replied:

>I would regard myself as the "failure type" although I am pretty brutal in 
>getting the best out of myself and avoiding possible failure situations. I 
>do speculate as to whether after reanimation I will be more successful 
>because any defects will also be corrected, and I do not see reanimation as 
>a possible failure situation.

I don't consider myself a failure--though I am certainly frustrated by 
the primitive technology we have available.  In fact, the gross world 
product (pre-nanotech) is not be enough to accomplish the things I 
want to do. 

In reference to the posting on Pseudoscience from Charles Platt 
<>:

[much deleted]

>The fact is, Y.B., many people here--probably the majority--do take
>cryonics seriously, and we feel we have excellent reasons for doing so. 
>Take a look at the level of scientific discussion in (for instance) the
>fact book from Alcor, or the shorter booklet from CryoCare, and you will
>see that there is not a trace of pseudoscience. 
>
>We do not have the luxury to indulge in Daedelus-style pseudoscience
>jokes, because our scientific legitimacy is precarious at best, and we
>don't want to encourage people to take it any less seriously than they do
>already. To some extent, our future lives depend on this. 
>
>Sorry not to share the joke, but perhaps now you see why. 

While I see Charles's point, and agree that most of the people here 
take cryonics *very* seriously, I don't think jokes are a luxury. 

Having a sense of humor and being willing to laugh at yourself once in 
a while is the way others can see that we have not become humorless 
"memeoids," trapped in cryo-cult.  (In fact, a lack of humor is 
*diagnostic* of cult member behavior.)  While it is not often 
displayed to outsiders, cryonics humor is really rough--not unlike 
that of mortuary workers.  I have considered putting together a list 
of these jokes. 

I thought the (tongue-in-cheek, laid-on-thick) use of "ghosts" to 
quick cool cryonics patients was reasonably funny--if only because 
next to no cryonicist believes in ghosts.  Now, if Y.B. comes back and 
tells us he was *serious*, I would revise my opinion of both the joke 
and him.  :-)  

Keith Henson

PS  An example of the kind of jokes cryonicist/extropians find funny: 

Most of you know about the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum 
mechanics.  Under that theory, every quantum event splits off a new 
world line, thus everything possible happens in an infinite number of 
worlds.  Well, this leads to a "fool proof" way to win the lottery. 
You buy one ticket and a gun, and if you lose, you kill yourself. Thus 
in all the worlds in which you are alive, you have won the lottery!  
(I think R. A. Wilson may have been the first to state it this way.)  
A more cynical and predatory person than me could get people to pay to 
learn about this "fool proof" method.  If anyone complained that it 
did not work, they obviously were not following the directions.  Hmm.  
If this way to win the lottery became a fad, it would sort of "fool 
proof" the multiverse by reducing the number of fools by lottery odds.

K.

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