X-Message-Number: 3837
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 22:24:03 -0800
From: John K Clark <>
Subject: SCI.CRYONICS moose and men

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   Wrote:

	>Uploaders often say, "If it looks like a duck, walks like a
	>duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck." Sometimes 
	>they leave out the "probably."
	
I'm pretty sure that in the real world you should never be
certain about anything, but I'm not absolutely positive about that.
	  
	>consider a human hunter who puts on a moose suit and head and
	>makes a moose mating call, hoping to lure a lady moose          
	>or gentleman moose, as the case may be. The moose says to
	>itself,"Hey, that passes the Turing Test; hold on, baby, hereI come."
		
As I've said many times the Turing Test is not perfect, it's
just the best thing possible. Analyzing behavior is not easy, so
sometimes you get it wrong, especially when you only have a few
seconds of behavior to look at. Even in your example a moose
must be right far more than wrong or moose would be extinct.
		
	>John Clark has said that we attribute feeling to animals
	>because we observe their behavior. Not so. We attribute feeling
	>to animals because we observe their behavior AND we
	>know their biology is similar to ours.
	
I don't think so, even today most people know very little about
biology yet they still attribute feeling to animals and other
people. The ancient Egyptians knew less than nothing about the
mechanisms of thought, they carefully preserved every part of
the body EXCEPT the brain which they considered a trivial organ
that  only to cooled the blood, yet they knew animals had
emotions, in fact many of their gods were animals.
	
	>Doesn't the Turing Test commit the anthropomorphic fallacy?
	
Anthropomorphism is a tool not a fallacy, like any tool
sometimes it's used foolishly. I don't believe my dog is just
like me but I don't think were entirely different either. I'm a
lot smatter than he is ( some may disagree) but I think he's as
emotional as I am, he's as emotional as anybody I know.
	
				 John K Clark            

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