X-Message-Number: 3982
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 19:41:55 -0700 (GMT)
From: Robert Horley <>
Subject: SCI.CRYONICS Reversal of Freezing Injuries



In message #3975 

>> Thomas Donaldson said:
>> 1. If we take a broad definition of nanotechnology so that it 
>> includes biotechnology too, then our revival will certainly 
>> happen by nanotechnology.   But many here seem to take a much 
>> narrower view, and I agree that such a narrower view may 
>> exclude the technology most likely to revive us soonest.  As
>> it stands now, we can actually remodel viruses to do things 
>> for us, and no other nanotechnological device has gone that 
>> far.

> Ralph Merkle said:
> If we include in "biotechnology" any system that uses 
> diffusional transport in water, then it seems unlikely that 
> biotechnology will be sufficient to reverse suspension using 
> current methods.  Such systems are unable to deal with frozen 
> tissue directly, but would have to warm the tissue up first.  
> But current suspension methods cause sufficient damage 
> (fracturing and the like) that warming up the tissue looks like
> a very bad idea.  Once rewarmed, the tissue (which has now 
> suffered both the damage from freezing *and* the damage from 
> thawing) would be subject to further deterioration.

     Ettingers people seem to have already gone some ways towards
developing methods that reduce fracturing and cracking damage. 
What I would like to know is does the cracking damage individual
cells or is it the large scale structure of the organism that is
damaged.  If the first is true then I think we have big, though
not unsolvable problems.  If the second is true then except for
the brain where information is partly stored in gross structure,
we should be able to repair most damage with surgery.  

     This leads me on to the other part of my original question. 
Can individual cell types survive careful freezing with cryo-
protectants?  If not, what kind of damage do they sustain?  Have
the experiments been done with diferent cell types to find out
their differing tolerances to freezing?... Where can the results
be accessed?   Have natural cryo-protectants ( a la antarctic
fish) ever been tried to see if they can minimize the dehydration
problem.

     Sorry to those professionals on this list who must find
these questions tiresome, but if cryostasis is ever going to
succeed and be accepted, then these kind of questions have to be
asked again and again from as many different angles as possible. 
We don't have the answers yet, but we must not stop asking the
questions.  We also must not sink into a dreamworld where we just
preach of a time in the unspecified future when the last trumpet
will blow and the dead shall mysteriously rise again from their dewar 
flasks using some kind of yet undeveloped nanotechnology.

Robert Horley
(The impossible just takes a little longer)


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