X-Message-Number: 4039 From: Trygve Bauge <> Subject: Misunderstandings die hard, maybe they are frozen? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 22:32:41 +0100 (GMT+0100) > > (Perry E. Metzger) said: > > > >> Mr. Coetzee has demonstrated that he is just as out of touch with > >> reality as Mr. Bauge. > >> > >Wait a minute, Mr. Metzger, who are you and what are your reasons > >for resorting to false and deragatory attacks below the belt? > > I'm not attacking you below the belt. I'm merely noting that you are a > person who goes about your business in such a way as to cause yourself > the maxium possible hardship. Not really. If I had wanted the most hardship I would not have left Norway in the first place. Having read Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry etc. I thought "Great" let me go to the United States. There at least the legal presedence will be on my side: the side of life, liberty and property. However I learned fast that these values are now for the most part only paid lip service to in the United States too. Norway is more protectionistic than the United States, and most people who wanted some individual liberty have left a long time ago. The problem is: where do we go when the United States is no longer willing to uphold the beacon of Liberty and justice for all? > People who think that cryonics is about > putting grandpa on dry ice in the back barn are already suspect in my > book -- I agree! And that was never my plan either. I designed and built a state of the art fire proof, earthquake proof and storm proof cryonic facility, including a care takers living quarters and a two story attached concrete storage area with the space for one four person metal dewar and one two person electrical freezer and cooldown box. The building is designed and laid out so that it easily can be expanded with a state of the art blast shelter and a earthenberm concrete laboratory. The latter can be added in segments so to take still more dewers, Most of the building materials for the blast shelter had been bought and are still at the building site. The main building was almost complete when I moved in my grand father around Christmas of 1993. We were all set to receive a two person electrical freezer a month later. And the plan was to line up one more client, install a four person metal dewar, and then complete the roof above it and the door in front of it. The foundation, floor nd three of the two story concrete walls were already built. Then things fell apart: David Tate who was to provide the electrical freezer, and the body of his friend Al Campbell, had mismeassured the body and when he received the freezer the body didn't fit. He returned the freezer and I was suddenly stuck with two bodies on dry ice in a improvised metal shed. The plan was still to line up one more client so to complete the purchace of a four person metal dewar and complete the attached concrete storage vault. However the INS ordered me deported in violation of my appeal rights, I got deported and the two bodies were left on dry ice in the improvized metal shed. The bodies were caught in transit so to speak. And if anyone think that my venture was aimed at"storing grandpa on dry ice in the back barn" then they are utterly mistaken. Once again one does what one can afford: I couldn't afford to store him longer at trans time. And it was only by moving him I could maintain him. The dry ice storage was reasonably calculated to last no more than 5 weeks or so which is not uncommon in cryonic circles. If Svein Hindal and other cryonic clients had paid me what they owe me, the situation would have been less pressed. In hindsight if I had known that Svein Hindal would defraud me I would not have used money earmarked for my grand father to assist Svein in freezing his mother. There is no doubt in my mind that Froya Hindal would not have been frozen without my coordination and assistance. And if Svein hadn't promissed to compensate me I would not have assisted him. >people who do it while attempting futile fights against the > government are doubly suspect. > I was in court for eight years against the INS. And the least one could expect is that they would respect due process. But I learned otherwise. Every singly right that you folks take for granted, is systematically and routinely violated by the immigration and naturalization service. There is no trial by jury, any written or established right that you invoke, is ignored. Illegally obtained evidence is not supressed. They ignore at will established appeals rights. The first amendment and the right to freedom of contract which are constitutional rights that should take presedence over agency rules, are routinely violated by the agency's actions and on and on. The established case laws amount to a systematic suspension of almost every known right. Rights are universal and unalienable and not just privileges granted to citizens at the whim of their government. I don't think it is futile to fight protectionism, I have spend litterally thousands of hours preparing how to enforce entrepreneurial Liberty. I look upon my battle the same way I look upon my cryonics ventures and my rejuvenation routines, and my designs for livable affordable life extension centers that can survive nuclear war: I look upon each of these ventures as an integral part of my most life extending venture combination and strategy. On the other hand if it turns out to be futile to fight the INS then it certainly is futile not to fight them. Without respect for individual autonomy, entrepreneurial liberty and private property, there is not much hope that we will greatly extend human life expectancy. Mind my words: a country that retorts to tribal protectionism, will succomb to tribal warfare, If you think you can build a future by acting as though the foreign born do not have the same universal unalienable rights as yourself then don't be surprized when your own government later takes away from you such rights that you have let it take away from the foreign born! And if you wonder why the rest of the world is not safe for Americans, then the answer can be found in your own border patrol. No government agency is better at turning good will towards the U.S. into animosity, than the I.N.S. And this is said by someone who still regards himself as an American in Exile. When I was held in a concentration camp for aliens back in 1986 I was the only one who knew t he law, still believed that it could be resurrected and who opted to stay and fight in court. All the other inmates opted to go elsewhere and to do to Americans what Jefferson did to the British! I since learned that immigration court is a sham. The court doesn't even bother to give the impression that justice is being served. But why bother to give the impression that justice is being served, when it isn't! Protectionism is the fore[Aign policy of the police state. and the police state is the domestic po[Alicy of protectionism. If you want to know more about my battle and how it is an integral part of a rational pursuit of longevity, I suggest you visit my WWW pages. > I do not disagree that you should have the ability to do any of the > damnfool things you've done It is important to stand up for what is right. It has been a rational and proud stand. Only by implementing liberty can I best implement my most life extending ventures. I can do so much more with the flexibility that liberty and rights respect offer. >-- but your mechanism for attempting to > fight for your rights seems hopelessly naive, Please be specific: What specific action of mine has been naive? and what alternative action would have been less naive? What of my assumptions do you challenge? Only if you are specific can I correct you when you are wrong and learn from you when you are right. > and most of what you > have done has, from a pragmatic standpoint, been very foolish to say the > least. Once again be specific what specific actions were foolish. Please keep in mind that these actions were not taken in a vacume but in specific situations where I after a lot of deliberation found them to be better than any alternative open to me at the time. > If you want to undertsand the rationale behind my actions, I suggest you visit my WWW pages. It would prevent a lot of misunderstandings. But on the other hand it is easier to jump to wrong conclusions. [C manual" by For a licensed copy of the full manual send $20 +your email address to: Trygve Bauge, Olaf Bull's vei #12 Apt. #229, 0765 Oslo, Norway. To look at samples before buying: [Bhttp://www.powertech.no/~trygveb/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4039