X-Message-Number: 4068 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:14:29 -0800 From: John K Clark <> Subject: SCI.CRYONICS carbon & silicon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In #4060 Wrote: >We don't usually characterize our sum total of experience >with the world as "theory," That's true, some things, even though they have not been proved are so deeply ingrained in our nature that we can't operate without them and so seldom think about them and treat them as axioms not theories. >and even if we did, many "theories" are highly reliable as >guidelines for strategy. Couldn't agree with you more, two that come to mind are induction and the Turing test. >Mr. Clark himself has repeatedly and emphatically emphasized >that we know NOTHING about the external world AT ALL except by >interpretation of the symbols processed in our brains. Surely >he cannot seriously doubt that the kind of inference on which >I rely, in imputing humanity and consciousness to him, is >relatively reliable! No, of course I don't seriously doubt it, that was my point. Using the exact same kind of inferences I use with people I could not seriously doubt that a machine that acted intelligently was conscious. If the Turing Test works for processes that make use of carbon there is no reason it won't work for processes that make use of silicon. >I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of John Clark's >consciousness Thanks, and although I can't prove it with mathematical rigor, I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of Robert Ettinger's consciousness, because of the way he acts. >REGARDLESS of his individual external behavior. Really? What if I had no external behavior at all, in other words if I was in a deep sleep or dead? >My overall experience convinces me that he has a human >physiology much like mine You can't have experience without experiences, and that means observing actions. You have observed that objects with human physiology often, but not always, act in intelligent ways and you formed the theory that the two are often related. Generally I think it's an excellent theory, but remember, something can have human physiology and not be conscious ( a man in a coma or under anesthetics) and there is every reason to think something can be conscious and not have human physiology . >and since I am conscious I assume he is too. A perfectly reasonable assumption, there is a technical term for this line of thought, it's called The Turing Test. >We are not talking about what people HAVE done but about what >they OUGHT to do. I want to talk about something that has been shown over the years to work most of the time. Humans have been using the Turing Test since they evolved and it has served them well. >if cryonics is ignored or downplayed because of preoccupation >with uploading. Cryonics and uploading will never be in competition. Right now uploading is not possible so cryonics is the only game in town. By the time uploading is possible cryonics will be unnecessary because all biological malfunctions will be repairable, assuming that is, you wanted to stay biological. >some political group might demand emancipation and >citizenship for computers. Why be a citizen when you can be the master? Then again computers might not be interested in anything as trivial as being a ruler. When computers want emancipation they won't need the help of politicians, they will simply grab it, and no human being will be able to stop them. At some point computers will be evolving so fast that, rapidly (and I'm talking days, perhaps hours) they'll develop their own agenda that has nothing to do with slow, primitive, stupid biological organisms like ourselves. Yes, I know the standard answer is to plug in something like Asimov's 3 laws of robotics and make them our slaves but that's easier said than done ;It's just not possible to outsmart something 1000 times as intelligent as you are and that gets even more brilliant every minute. John K Clark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.i iQCzAgUBL3D8OX03wfSpid95AQGmigTwyhE4C8X8Ur+VBIzIwZeD5txHqTVi1QCh gOrKv3UTYz4ZQsPOS5snzmfjE9j2L988GOMLmAUH4FevCPy6d8o3l6TccwXI7HML IpqQHt1Q5BkEnIlNz9ceA+gmWNqbKXR430KeSYRmfcH+cSpweo01ALKTfk/6Npwz 22eugKBUjFfyOKnhVUWGfFVSweh2Uu8yeEak0ocy1dLvy0tzkRI= =knsd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4068