X-Message-Number: 4814 From: "Tony N. Rogers" <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #4810 - #4811 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:49:38 -0400 (EDT) In a previous message, CryoNet wrote: > > CryoNet - Thu 24 Aug 1995 > > #4810: I'll just pipe down then ... [Peter Merel] > #4811: Attitude change and terror management [David Stodolsky] > > List Admin. on Vacation > ----------------------- > I will be off-line Sat. Aug. 19 through Fri. Aug. 25. > CryoNet still will run automatically in my absence but > I will be unable to attend to any administrative requests > until I return. - Kevin Q. Brown () > > > Administrivia > > To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to: > > (Note: A "Subject:" line starting the message body replaces > the "Subject:" line in the header. This gives a second > opportunity to provide a meaningful subject line.) To send > your message automatically to both CryoNet and the USENET > sci.cryonics news group, include "SCI.CRYONICS" in your Subject > line. Please do _not_ post copyrighted articles unless you have > permission. Also, please forward only scientific/technical > messages to sci.cryonics. > > To retrieve past messages, send email to: > > with the message numbers in the subject line. > You also can retrieve them via the CryoNet web page at URL: > http://www.c2.org/~kqb/cryonet.html > > To subscribe or unsubscribe, send email to: > > with the message _body_ starting with the line: > subscribe cryonet > or: > unsubscribe cryonet > > For administrative or other questions/suggestions, send email > to me at "". > - Kevin Q. Brown > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message #4810 > From: Peter Merel <> > Subject: CRYONICS I'll just pipe down then ... > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 00:39:45 +1000 (EST) > > Perry Metzger, Steve Bridge and Steve Harris take me to task over the > MLM idea. I should probably say that I'm not affilliated with any MLM, > have never been, and don't intend to be. I accept the arguments > put forth, but I don't think any of them preclude the idea entirely. > However it was only floated out of curiosity, and given the warmth > of its reception I'm not interested in pursuing it any further. > > Apologies that it raised hackles. > > As to being signed up - no, Steve, not yet. I could recall the reasons > why, but you probably know the sort of thing I'd describe. For the little > that it's worth, I fully intend to get my wife and I signed up in the next > couple of months. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message #4811 > From: (David Stodolsky) > Subject: Attitude change and terror management > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 95 15:29:53 +0200 (CET DST) > > The recent Moravec discussion has brought up a recurring theme. > Why don't all rational and intelligent people support cryonics? > Most of the discussion has centered around the logic of cryonics. > However, the solution may lie elsewhere, in the psychodynamics of > terror management. That is, if peoples' attitudes are to change, there > must be an emotive element involved. > > Greenberg, et al. (1995, p. 431) state: > "This research suggests that the immediate conscious concern following > mortality salience is to suppress further death-related thoughts. > Once such thoughts have been effectively removed from current focal > attention, they become more accessible and worldview defence is intensified. > These findings thus provide further evidence consistent with the > idea that terror management processes occur outside of conscious awareness." > > > This suggests that no amount of logical argument can change > attitudes toward death. Once mortality becomes salient, death related > thoughts are suppressed. When the unpleasant emotions associated with > thoughts of one's own vulnerability have passed, one's adherence > to the dominant worldview and one's place within it can be strengthened > by unconscious processes. > > It seems necessary to bring emotions in direct contact with > the unpleasant thoughts. That is, persons must face the terror of > their own death, and accept their mortality, while having these negative > emotions. The research suggests the level of fear can be reduced > by reinforcing the person's worldview and by increasing their self-esteem, > that is, their living up to the standards of value that are part of > that worldview. > > Unfortunately, many persons' worldview is based upon a religious system > which posits survival of an immortal soul. Strengthening his worldview > could well contradict a change toward acceptance of cryonics. This > is logical, but it may not in fact be the case. Religious beliefs > of this type have not obstructed participation in cryonic suspension > for some persons. > > Alternatively, there has been a lack of success in attracting 'humanists' > to cryonics. This could be because many of these people have accepted > their place in the world and their mortality. With such persons, it > might be necessary to weaken their worldview and self-esteem, before > adequate fear could be generated to induced an attitude change. > > > Terror management theory may be able to explain why charismatic leaders > of groups such as Eternal Flame can attract followers to totally ridiculous > belief systems. They bring fear of death into contact with a new worldview > that manages that fear. > > Terror management theory has only had about ten years of development. > It could be a foundation for a series of well controlled experiments > to test some of the above ideas. Such experiments would be complicated, > both from an experimental and ethical standpoint. Therefore, only > qualified persons should be entrusted with them. The cryonics movement > should support further work in this area. Its applicability to promoting > cryonics is clear. > > [see earlier post for complete reference] > > dss > > > David S. Stodolsky Euromath Center University of Copenhagen > Tel.: +45 38 33 03 30 Fax: +45 38 33 88 80 (C) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > End of CryoNet Digest > ********************* > -- Michigan Technological Univ. *T. Rogers* INTERNET: Dept. of Chem. Engr. "He that complies against his Houghton, MI 49931 CLEMSON FOOTBALL will, Is of his own opinion tel: (906) 487-2210 '81 National Title still." - Samuel Butler Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4814