X-Message-Number: 4816
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: Re: CryoNet #4779 - #4785
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 23:59:17 -0700 (PDT)

Hi again!

With regard to Hans Moravec's ideas, both about his personal survival and
the future:

Moravec provides an interesting case of someone who doesn't want to live.
Naturally all such people come up with explanations for their decision.
Moravec has one which ISN'T theological: he will become "outmoded". 
This tells me that he does not value himself for himself, but only 
adopts the valuation of Hans Moravec made by others. (Since most others 
really have no interest in your survival, though they MIGHT have interest in
their own, doing that automatically means that you don't want to live).

Furthermore, his discussion probably points out THE major reason why cryonics
remains so relatively unpopular. Most people DON'T have any independent sense
of their own value. They measure themselves solely as others see them. If 
enough of those others believe that they will die, then they will obediently
die. (Certainly the proximate cause of their death isn't that, but something
more physical. But I am referring to the ultimate cause). Not only that, but 
by his belief that he will be "outmoded" he also measures himself only against
the PRESENT situation. Such people, if displaced in time as cryonic suspension
would do, would find themselves bereft of their reference for value, which is
no more than the PRESENT. Not only that, but since Moravec is an "intelligent"
person, we see that this kind of attitude can be taken by "intelligent"
people too. Even the intelligent aren't immune to this infection.  

While I strongly doubt that Moravec's future will arrive in the form he paints
it, I would say that my own response to such a future would be exactly to try
to upgrade myself ... by uploading or whatever other means were available. 
Anyone who decided that I was of no use to them (whether that person was a 
superintelligent computer or whatever) would simply be an obstacle, not a 
reference for my own valuation of myself.

In Moravec's case, particularly, we can even guess how that would happen. 
Everything I've read of his opinions suggests that he enjoys those opinions 
which would shock or astound. That is, he plays to an audience. Such a puppet
of his audience would certainly find cryonic suspension unpleasant. Not only
that, but a lot of public figures play to their audience, and thus as puppets
would never accept the idea of suspension. 

I don't like the idea of anyone dying: even puppets, even the most immoral.
For with enough time all such personal problems will disappear. We will all,
in a sense more profound than we now understand, GROW UP. But I can no more
think of a way to give Moravec a wish to live than I could bring to life a 
rag doll. I'm sorry.

			Long long life,

				Thomas Donaldson


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