X-Message-Number: 5620 From: Garret Smyth <> Newsgroups: sci.cryonics Subject: Re: Don't talk about neurosuspension Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 02:16:00 GMT Message-ID: <> References: <> <> Brad Templeton writes: > I'm not saying deny Neuro. Just as well. It wouldn't do to deny it three times before the cock crows, eh? > I'm saying express it as, in a slightly > equivocal way, what it actually is. > It [neurosuspension] *is* a cost saving measure. That's like saying that buying a Mercedes compared to a Rolls Royce is a cost saving measure! A more important point in my case is that my signing up for neuro-suspension is certainly *mot* a cost saving measure, becasue I have arranged enough insurance to cover to pay for whole body and then some. > There's lots of information about your life... There is very little that anyone seriously considers critical to one's identity that is stored in the body. You would be far better off spending the money on preserving your diaries as per another thread. In fact, given the amount of memories lost, you would probably be better paying for your parents to be suspended, since they remember so much about your early life. > what your > motor skills were in your body that's not in your brain or even in your > DNA. I wasn't aware that learning could occur in the spine. I thought that it was all reflex actions, and specificaly *was* inherited. However I am happy to bow to your greater knowledge if you have evidence. > If cost were not an object, *of course* you would keep the body > for its information content, so long as keeping the body didn't hurt > the best suspension of the brain. Be careful about gratuitous "*of course*"s. As I've already said, in my case, cost isn't an object. If I had huge amounts of money I might well hire a team to follow me about videoing my life and taking notes about every little thing I did and said. If I had more stamina I might write a very detailed diary myself and have it stored, which would be a relatively cheap option, and actually would be pretty useful, given the way my life has gone so far. A diary might even bring in some revenue this side of the dewar. > ...if it weren't for cost issues, throwing away > useful information is dumb. The only real evidence I have seen leads me to think that useful information in the body is in the genes. This is stored, even in neuro-suspensions. An article that I read in "Cryonics" years ago (I think by Ralph Merkle) mentioned studies by the Bell Laboratories on human memory long term storage abilities, as measured using the cruel but fair techniques employed in the telephone/computer industiries, was frighteningly low. The figure I remember is so low as to be very scary indeed - so Ralph, if you are reading this, please, please, correct me if I'm wrong. Our long term memory only appears to able to take in two bits a second. Not two bytes, but two bits. A second. As I said, please please please please correct me if I'm wrong. Okay, the brain uses incredible compression techniques, and we seem to have a richer memory because the short term memory can hold much more, but nevertheless, we could be downloaded onto a CD. The information lost by not bringing along the rest of the body is tiny (trivial) compared to the daily loss of experience. Spend your money on storing details of your life and feelings, not your pancreas, spleen, scapula and the pounds of turd in your gut. Every hour, even every minute we lose more than our bodies everhave in them. Our memories are what we are, and every second they are lost. "Memories lost, like tears in rain" > So it is a cost saving measure. As I keep saying, NO! > But at worst case, if you were Bill Gates, you > would have their cut your head off your body and have them preserve > both. I'm sorry, but this particular idea is completely incomprehensible to me. It can't be better than whole body, and could be worse. I've explained that whole body isn't for me, but if it were, I'd go whole body rather than the "bloody tower" route. If I had Gates's money, I would go for neuro and spend as much as I could on research into cryopreservation of neural tissue, coupled with an improvement into the logistics of remote suspension. I might also have the team I mentioned follow me about and take a record of my life. The "if you were Bill Gates" thing is another form of "What would you do if you one the lottery?" dream (and enjoyable waste of time). I would like to suspend as many people as I could. This is not pure altruism, since the first people on the list would be people that knew me, which would be good for learning more about my own past. Unfortunately I only have one parent left, but I would have thought most people would have their parents at or near the top of their list. I widh I could have suspended a dear old woman that lived near me until a few years ago. She was very bright until the end. I first met her in the early eighties. She was unusual for her day and had had a career before getting married. She told me that she'd been an actress in her twenties. I asked her why she had given up. "Well..." she said, looking back down the years, "I wanted to be able to spend more time with my husband, and of course the [theatre] company I was with was having a lot of trouble since the talkies came in."! Molly Jones had been born in 1899 and so easily remembered 1928's "The Jazz Singer", also the first aeroplanes. She'd moved to my part of London before WWII. Her tales of air raids were chilling. If I had the money, and influence, I'd be far more concerned to have the likes of the irreplaceable Molly Jones preserved than the trivial information contained in my left foot. TTFN G -- Garret Smyth Phone: 0181 789 1045 or +44 181 789 1045 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5620