X-Message-Number: 5737
From:  (Greg REILLY-COOPER)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,sci.life-extension,uk.legal
Subject: Re: Death (was Donaldson MR and Miss Hindley)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 17:40:33 GMT
Message-ID: <>
References: <4flato$> <>

On 12 Feb 96 03:54:00 GMT,  (Brian Wowk) didst utter:

:>  	Fear of death is ancient, instinctive and natural as breathing.
:>  Evolution has for eons exerted selection pressure favoring creatures
:>  that fear death, as their avoidance of death allows them to reproduce
:>  longer.  If you do not fear death, you are either not human or a liar.

I had not realised that.  Perhaps I need help ?  Me, and millions of
others who, whilst not exactly "chomping at the bit", are content to
believe that there is a hereafter.  In my view, it is not death but
the process of dying - and the worry that one's personal process may
be unpleasant - which is fearful.

:>  	More to the point, just what is the purpose of medicine anyway
:>  if not to extend the length and quality of human life?  Why do we have
:>  ambulances, hospitals, and doctors (not exactly "modern" phenomena)?  Why
:>  expend any resources on medicine at all if death is an equanimous event?

Perhaps you have heard of "the quality of life" ?  There is no reason
why the human frame should not be repaired and maintained in the best
possible condition for as long as it is "in use".  You might as well
have asked why we should bother repairing accident-damaged road
vehicles since they will be taken out of service sooner or later
anyway.
  
:>  	How kind.  Please keep us cryonicists informed on how to
:>  remain in your good graces.  In the meantime, you might want to
:>  introspect on how it is possible to be so phenomenally arrogant 
:>  as to believe you have the right to tell people (using the force of law)
:>  the temperature at which they must keep their remains.   

Such sardonic prattle does little to advance your case and does more
to invite derision.  The disposal of human remains has long been
subject to legislation and if you feel that you have a viable
alternative to anything which is currently accepted as "the norm" it
is for you, and not the rest of society, to state the case.

:>  	I agree that medically this is a good analogue to cryonics.
:>  However the legal and moral circumstances are completely different.
:>  In fact they are inverse!  In the case above, the hospital desperately
:>  wants to rid itself of a patient, the obstacle being legal and moral
:>  objections of outside society.  In the case of cryonics, we cryonics
:>  organizations desperately want to KEEP our patients, the obstacle
:>  being people like you who want us to pull the plug.   

I doubt that the hospital concerned, and the relatives and friends of
the patient, would favour your description of its motives.

I, for one, begin to wonder how much (you) "cryonics organisations"
are motivated by profit.  The "obstacle" which you refer to and are
patently unable to recognise is not "people like (us) who want to pull
the plug" but people like you who are either unwilling or unable to
make a case for change.  Until and unless you do, it is entirely
reasonable for the rest of us to expect you to accept the established
norms.

It is probably cause for lament among those who do genuinely believe
in the value of cryonics that someone like you should make such a poor
show of explaining the position whilst at the same vesting yourself
with the profile of President of a "cryonic organisation".

Greg


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