X-Message-Number: 5794
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:06:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Joseph Strout <>
Subject: Re: Telekinesis and other bunk

In Cryomsg #5790, Mac Tonnies wrote:


> I believe any worthwhile philosophy of transhumanism must be ready to cope 
with
> the potential of latent "psychic" phenomena.  Telekinesis, for example, has
> been firmly established as an empirical truth--it is the _nature_ of the
> process that is unexplained, not whether or not it occurs.

Really?  This is news to me, and I know quite a few top-notch 
neuroscientists.  What peer-reviewed journal articles firmly establish 
this truth?  Please give references for us ignorant ones.

> virtually any competent clinical experimentor with experience will
> admit (however grudgingly) that there is "something to it."

Hmm, again I've met some quite competent clinical experimentors, but 
I don't think any of them would say telekinesis is anything but fantasy.

> Why not?  If one accepts that the human brain can influence material objects

> outside of its own physical vicinity, can't one imagine individual chromosomes
> and genes being similarly manipulated?  And if nanoscopic "influence" of this
> sort is indeed a possibility, one is almost forced to expect educated,
> purposeful control of cellular data--up to and including DNA itself.

Really, isn't there some other mailing list or newsgroup more appropriate 
for this?  The sci.* hierarchy won't do, being too concerned with 
reality; but perhaps there is something in alt.*.

> The implications are astounding and hard to accept.  But _if_ telekinesis is

> recognized as a genuine neural attribute (and eventually the evidence for this
> will prove overwhelming), it is one that will have powerful effects on the
> concept of immortality.

Before the evidence can prove overwhelming, it must be even suggestive.  
So far I've not seen even suggestive evidence -- AFAIK, every 
"telekinetic" who's agreed to work under controlled laboratory conditions 
was shown to be a sham.  They used common magic tricks, like any 
performer; in fact, there was a professional magician (I forget his name) 
who made a point of duplicating these "psychics" tricks, then showing the 
scientists how it was done.

I was under the impression that this matter had been laid to rest years 
ago.  If you're going to claim that it's not, you'd better back your 
statements up with some good hard references.  Otherwise, I'm afraid that 
your post will not be taken very seriously.

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           Department of Neuroscience, UCSD   |
|               http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~jstrout/  |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5794