X-Message-Number: 5826
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:08:07 -0600 (CST)
From: N E U R O M A N C E R <>
Subject: on pseudoscience  (Mac Tonnies)

Doug Skrecky wrote:

>   These experiments are a dramatic improvement over earlier ones in that
> they were designed to satisfy the technical demands of PSI skeptics. 
> Since the results were positive skeptics have no explanation consistent
> with their beliefs. I am optimistic that over the next 20 years the
> existence or nonexistance of PSI will be definitively established by
> similar experiments. 

I'm very excited over the new experiments in this strange, potentially
remarkable field.  It's also a vast relief to see investigators shrug off the
biases that tainted earlier efforts at "research."

****

John K. Clark wrote:

>Whenever the claimed occurrence is extraordinary the evidence supporting it 
>is lousy. 

In many cases, this is absolutely correct.  But truth does not hinge on Sagan's
maxim, even though there is an influential contingent that is more than happy
to suspend logic and believe that it does.  To apply the "proportional
evidence" argument toward unpopular research in general is nothing short of
moronic.

>No good neuroscientist would bother study the paranormal, not now, it's 
>already been done and found wanting. Nobody can do everything, part of the 
>scientific method is finding out what avenues to pursue and what to ignore. 
>There are too many exciting things to do and find out about to waste time 
>with dead end spoon bending studies.

Sarcasm aside, I once again find your arguments convoluted.  First, you use the
assertion that neuroscientists "haven't found anything" as proof against psi
phenomena.  Now you maintain that neuroscientists don't partake in serious psi
research in the first place.
                     
>>He [Carl Sagan] is committed to selling science to the public.
                  
>And a very noble commitment it is, I hope he becomes very rich.

So do I...but if the price to pay is official denial, then I want out.  For
all of Sagan's positivity, he is putting himself in the position of a
technocrat.  I find this position incompatible with good science.
                      
>Like the AWESOME discovery that the Tunguska explosion produced a mushroom 
>cloud 40 years before Hiroshima?  Any large explosion will do that.

Debating this would quite literally necessitate a new forum, and I feel no need
to delve into this.  But I feel obligated to make clear my opinion that your
wedding of fact and arrogant dismissal is unsuccessful.  I sincerely hope 
others don't fall for it.

>Based on conflicting reports from a few illiterate peasants describing  
>something they saw for 20 seconds 20 years before.

Even if this assertion was true (which it most certainly _isn't_), you indicate
a ferocious mistrust of human observation and honesty.  I might add that the
cryonics business itself would like very much to convince the post-industrial
"peasantry" that cryonics is deserving of attention.  In this case, they are
conveniant.  When their testimony contradicts some futile whim, it becomes easy
to refute, ignore or distort anything they say.  

>Oh no! Now we have Martians, Martians who look just like us, Martians who act 
>just like us, Martians who like to make statues just like us.

I receive a considerable amount of e-mail requesting that I take my
observations elsewhere.  If this is the kind of fodder that is deemed
acceptable, then, quite frankly,  I am amazed.  I have tried to be rational
from the start, and feel that emotive nonsense like this does more to discredit
_me_ more than "icons of rationality" like yourself.  In short, I could do
without it.

And I sincerely hope that the upcoming Mars orbiters are able to provide us
with some high-resolution photos of the "statue" in question.  It's quite
possible that we're in for a large surprise.

Mac Tonnies      
509 Phillips Hall                          
Northwest Missouri State University
Maryville, MO 64468
(816) 562-6716
   http://www.nwmissouri.edu/~0211555/apu.html
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