X-Message-Number: 5828
Date:  Sun, 25 Feb 96 15:31:27 
From: Steve Bridge <>
Subject: More Mac Tonnies on Telekinesis

To CryoNet
>From Steve Bridge
February 25, 1996

Mac Tonnies sent me this privately, then asked me to post it to CryoNet.
It is in reply to the message from me posted on CryoNet Feb. 25 and sent to
Mac privately as well.

Steve

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

To:             
Date sent:      24-Feb-96 19:42:19 -0600

From:            (N E U R O M A N C E 
R){}
Subject:        from Mac Tonnies
Send reply to:  {ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU!0212104}

>To: 
Dear Steve Bridge,

I appreciate your private responses.  My original query has been muddled
by the exists/does not exist argument (which is my fault), but my original
area of interest was cryonics-related (remote manipulation of genetic
information). Obviously, this point gets drowned out when its reality is
called into question.  In short, I had no intention to "abuse" CryoNet with
my speculation, and will most definitely try to rectify my position through
documented evidence.

One of my main areas of concern is the simple fact that "documented" means
different things to different people.  ("Documented by whom?")  It's hard
to disagree with the fact that "far-out" science is easier to disparage
than the "mainstream."

For example, I have immense confidence in cryonics as a means toward life
extension, but only because I've avidly read "the literature" for several
years, and from several viewpoints (many seeming to flatly contradict each
other).

I realize I'm something of an oddball barging into the forum bringing up
telekinesis (I'm getting to hate that word!), but certainly you understand
the wall I'm up against.

How to convince readers already _postitive_ that what I mention is
scientific rubbish?  (And from some of the responses posted, I've arrived
at _exactly_ that conclusion!)

Good Lord!  These poeple are cryonicists, debating the feasability and
merits of "raising the dead"!  This sort of thing tends to look ludicrous
to anyone not "in the know."  I've been made painfully aware of this fact
practically every time the subject has come up in conversation.

Granted, cryonics is founded in recognized science.  But I'm convinced
that certain areas of "psychic" inquiry are also grounded in objective
fact. Accepting this doesn't mean swallowing every crackpot tale of moving
heavy objects with "thought power."  There are many more mundane examples
that tend to give telekinesis and other trans-cerebral processes validity.

Jimmy Carter recently went on the record affirming successful use of
"remote viewing" with enemy ocean vessels during the Cold War.  He was by
no means the first.  All evidence indicates that some group in our own
government is convinced of telepathy _enough_ to form the backbone of some
very important (and very classified) defense manuevers.  The identification
of nuclear war- heads is not something to leave to "crackpots."

And what about some of the documented accounts of "miraculous" healings?
(And, yes, I'm aware of some documented accounts that, while not sufficient
to provide an "etiology of the unknown," constitute sufficient evidence to
demand rational investifation.)

>Most people were not particularly upset that you or others might want to
>*look for* some evidence for telekinesis.  They were upset that you
>claimed it was *already* proven fact.

This is not the impression I got.

The most detracting aspect of "proving my case" is deciding which case
studies to type in--there is a wealth of them.  But if mainstream science
refused to be impressed the 1st time around, why should they give a hoot
about my second-hand descriptions?  Do you honestly think I can convince
anybody?  Too many minds have been _made up_...I realized this when I
entered my first post, and was hoping for a measure of suspended disbelief,
if not cautious acceptance.

Lastly:  I readily admit that there were many good reponses.  But I
noticed a certain "smug arrogance" in some cases that suggests that more
than scientific principles were "violated" by my post.


Thanks again for your messages,

Mac Tonnies
509 Phillips Hall
Northwest Missouri State University
Maryville, MO 64468
(816) 562-6716
   http://www.nwmissouri.edu/~0211555/apu.html

Forwarded by:

Stephen Bridge, President ()

Alcor Life Extension Foundation
Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972.
7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916
Phone (602) 922-9013  (800) 367-2228   FAX (602) 922-9027
 for general requests
http://www.webcom.com/~alcor


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