X-Message-Number: 5994
From: John de Rivaz <>
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
Subject: Organisation of Assets for suspension
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:01:55 +0100
Message-ID: <>
Here is a cross post of some email correspondence with John Sharman which
may be of interest and hopefully will elicit some more opinions on the
topics raised.
In article: <> writes:
>
> Hi John.
>
> The debate continues. You are welcome to post any part of this email if
> you want.
>
( re the recent suspension of someone suffering from terminal cancer)
> > > > If I was the subject of this, and if I lived in an ideal world, on
> > > > diagnosis I would have liked to have been able to
> > > >
> > > > 1. Issue instructions for the transfer the necessary funds (eg from
a
> > > > pep or stock brokerage account) to a cryonics organisation without
> > > > hindrance and worries that it may not be done if I were to die
> > > > suddenly before the stocks were sold.
> > >
> > > No problem so far.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. Go into a lawyer's offices and ask for a trust to be drawn up so
> > > > that my remaining property is left in trust, domiciled overseas,
> > > > for the income (and use of physical assets) to be used by my
> > > > partner until she goes into
> > > > suspension and thereafter to the cryonics organisation. The
following
> > > > afternoon to go back and find it had all been drawn up for
signature
> > > > and was legal and binding once signed.
> > >
> > > The methodology which you suggest is not the best. Provided that you
> > > have trustworthy contacts, back to back companies are probably the
best
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Not sure what you mean, but the "trustworthy contacts" are probably the
> > block, as nothing in this world is totally safe! [owing something
yourself
> > may not be the safe*est* though, especially in the USA. Organisations
such
> > as terra Libra (their list has been quiet lately) suggest doing
everything
> > through trusts and nominee companies leasing back your physical assets
> > (house, caR etc) -, but they skip around the question as to what would
> > happen if the trustees or directors decide to make off with your
assets.
>
> You will appreciate that I have not yet fully thought through the
> detail of the legal structure which might achieve the desired object,
> but what I have in mind would be a transfer of assets inter vivos to a
> purpose-formed limited company in return for the issue of effectively the
> whole of the share capital (credited as paid up) in that limited
> company.
Would the individual then be able to carry on living in and using the
physical assets as though they were his own?
If the company does not produce a trading profit does this create a
problem?
Would audit fees take a substantial chunk of the indovidual's post tax
income unless he is very rich? I had a a limited company once and the
auditor advised me to de-limit it as legal requirements for audit were such
that the costs were disproportionate to its income.
> The shares in this company would then be devised by will to a
> second company.
If a death tax was involved here it could crash the project. I mentioned
overseas companies because if all the assets were owned by organisations
outside any jurisdiction that charged death taxes (in the UK "Inheritance
Tax") the only taxation that would be involved would be income tax when the
company A paid its owner living expensies and possible tax on occupancy of
the residence if the rent is below market rent. I would assume that company
A would pay its owner dividends rather than wages as otherwise National
"Insurance" tax would be involved.
If the owner wanted a family to continue living in the house when he is in
suspension, it may be possible to use a protected tenancy to reduce the
value of the property for death tax purposes in some jurisdictions.
> Company B would be an investment company. Company A
> would be a trading company. Alternatively, Company A might be replaced
> by a charitable trust (this could be difficult - charitable registration
> is not likely to be entirely secure); in any event, the objects of the
> entity would be to maintain the cryopreserved deceased.
Someone tried to form a charitable trust to investigate methods of
extending lifespan and was turned down by the UK charity comissioners.
> The shares in
> company B would be what must be placed in the hands of a reliable party
> - this could be a law firm or whatever who would draw a modest annual
> fee only so long as they fulfilled contractual obligations owed to the
> estate of the deceased. The cryonics company (which should be
> incorporated as a Trust Corporation) would be one of the executors of the
> will of the deceased. I think that I could have some fun in drafting
> such documentation, but it would be a major task ;-)
>
If you were to produce it as a package that could be sold to several people
it would be a speculation that enough people will get involved in cryonics
to make it a property that you could sell again and again. If you have fun
drawing it up, then you will be paid for doing what is fun, which is surely
everyone's idea of a good deal!
At the moment there are tens rather than hundreds of people actually signed
up on the UK. However the public awareness of cryonics is very high, and
this creates a situation when some seed event (Princess Diana signing up an
AIDS patient? A UK pop or sports star signing up?) could cause lots of
people to suddenly sign up themselves. Anyone with professional services
ready to offer them will then be in a very sound position!
The Cryonics Institute's UK representative funeral director, Barry Albin of
F A Albin & Co, London, takes this attitude in providing extensive cryonics
support, much of it at his own expense. He does not want it himself, but
considers it a worthwhile proposition to be able to offer his clients in
the UK and Europe. Also, his involvement in cryonics has given his firm the
reputation of being open minded and in the forefront of its profession,
which can't be bad for business overall.
> > > shot. Avoids the Perpetuities and Accumulations Act. Memorandum of
> >
> > If overseas in a country which doesn't have one?
>
> No. I have it in mind to make something which would work under UK law;
> there would have to be contingent provisions to cover changes in the
> law.
> --
> Regards,
>
> John Sharman
> +====================================================================+
> | John Sharman Internet: |
> | Tel/Fax: +44 (0)1603 452142 |
> +====================================================================+
>
>
--
Sincerely, ****************************************
* Publisher of Longevity Report *
John de Rivaz * Fractal Report *
* details on request *
****************************************
In the information age, sharing can increase world wealth enormously,
because giving information does not decrease your information.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JohndeR
Fast loading, very few slow pictures
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5994