X-Message-Number: 6183
From: (Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
Subject: Re: Timothy Leary Renounces Cryonics
Date: 9 May 1996 07:05:08 GMT
Message-ID: <4ms5f4$>
References: <4mm6s8$> <>
In Message <>
(hEpCaT) writes:
Cosenza >>What readers of sci.cryonics may or may not know is
that Platt posted a memo to the cryonics mailing list (
ryonet.org) yesterday to the effect that BPI had refused Leary
services<<
Comment: Untrue, if Cosenza means basic cryonics services.
Leary was merely refused the service of having equipment stored
at his home, and made to understand that this was due to his own
open-door policy to a large group of semi-strangers which made
security for such equipment impossible, and also due to his
refusal to follow the kind of prudent medical course would have
made the risks of leaving the equipment in place worthwhile.
Cosenza: >> and I am also informed that Mike Darwin actually
had the gaul to lecture Mr. Leary's friends before he and Platt
removed the standby kits from Leary's house.<<
Comment: I'm not quite sure what "gaul" is-- Parisian-class
rudeness, maybe? But it seems to me that to know whether a
"lecture" by Mike to Leary's "friends" about care of Leary was
appropriate or an act of gall, one would have to know the
circumstances under which said advice was delivered. Which
Cosenza certainly does not. Knowing something of this matter
myself, I think Mike can be forgiven anything he said under the
circumstances.
Cosenza: >> And Platt wonders why Leary was so alienated that
he called him up and let him off the hook? Frankly, if anyone
ever treated me as badly as the CryoCare family of companies have
treated Leary, I'd not only discontinue my membership, but I'd
also consider suing the pants off them! <<
Comment: Cosenza really has no clue as to how CryoCare has
treated Leary, or been treated by Leary. He wasn't there.
Comment: We must note that Leary originally left *Alcor* to go
to CryoCare. We might therefore ask: what was Leary letting
**Alcor** "off the hook" for, when he left THEM? I could just as
well claim that Leary's original Alcor exodus was due to the way
*Alcor* treated him. He didn't go *back* to Alcor after leaving
CryoCare, either, after all.
What does all this actually mean? Not as much as Cosenza
implies. It means merely that Leary's leaving CryoCare reflects
no worse on CryoCare than Leary's earlier leaving of Alcor does
on Alcor. The simple fact is that Leary has his own priorities,
and survival isn't a high one-- and hasn't been for a long time.
To Leary, his choice of a cryonics organization, or choice not to
have one at all, is no more significant than his choice of poses
for a camera. This took us all at CryoCare some time to under-
stand, quite frankly. Cosenza hasn't gotten there yet. If
Cosenza will go to Alcor to attempt to get them to offer Leary a
cryonic suspension at well below cost, and (if they should agree)
then go on to offer this to Leary himself, I'm sure he will get
quite an education. For somewhere along the line, he will surely
encounter the same grave difficulties which he has criticized
CryoCare for being unable to surmount. We await the results.
Don't kibitz from the sidelines, Cosenza. Show us how it's done.
>> Here they are TRYING to pass themselves off as the leader
in cryonics, and then they treat their membership with such
contempt.<<
Comment: Leary's friends are not cryonics membership. As for
Leary himself, he was always treated respectfully by CryoCare.
>>It looks like my (once called paranoid) fears have become
reality-- that a cryonics group dedicated to the preservation of
life would refuse to serve people just because they got
frustrated with family and friends.<<
Comment: Again, I could as well claim that Alcor "refuses" to
serve Leary, on the basis that it isn't presently doing so. This
is just as silly an argument as Cosenza's. There is of course a
big difference between refusing to serve someone, and having that
someone make it impossible for you to serve them. Cryocare
was willing to serve Leary in every reasonable way, right up the
point he said "No, thanks." Furthermore, CryoCare even called
Alcor when it became clear CryoCare wasn't going to be permitted
to do a very good job for Mr. Leary (a courtesy, BTW, which Alcor
has certainly never rendered to CryoCare when it found it could
not serve a prospective Alcor client).
>>It looks to me to be a blatant case of discrimination on
CryoCare and BPI's part-- this is consistent with the time that I
had requested paperwork from them just so I could compare what
they had with what others were using, and Platt himself on the
CryoNet authoritarily told me that *he* didn't think I was really
interested and that being the reason given that I never received
copies of their paperwork that I would have even paid the
postage to get.<<
Comment: At CryoCare they refuse the right to refuse service
to any potential customer. No libertarian could fail to wish
that any organization did otherwise. For members, CryoCare
reserves the right to refuse provision of the highest standard of
standby services if a member deliberately makes it overly
dangerous or expensive for CryoCare to do so (it's in the
contract). Alcor and CI actually don't promise to do *anything*
in the way of remote standby (and usually don't), so the issue
never arises for Cosenza's organization (Alcor).
>>I would be very skeptical of organizations that act this way
and have such little regard for their members. I would further
encourage anyone who is seriously considering cryonics to sign up
with a more reputable organization that has a track record for
defending its patients instead of leaving them out in the cold as
it were <<
Comment: Leary was not left out in the cold. Again, the only
thing CryoCare did with Leary was withdraw under great financial
and social pressure some standby services which Alcor generally
never offers in the first place. If Cosenza thinks the people at
CryoCare are ogres for doing this, he should talk to this own
organization about the obligation to provide standby services.
He seems to be unusually confused about the issue.
Steve Harris*
*Speaking for myself, not necessarily CryoCare.
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