X-Message-Number: 6604
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: Lazaroids,bodies,and brain vitrification
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:26:40 -0700 (PDT)

Hi again!

1. To Mr. Elgort: believe it or not, there really are substances called 
lazaroids, and they MAY (as of the last time I looked, and I try to look
frequently) help survival of our brain. (This area is one I try to look at
in my newsletter PERIASTRON).

2. Even for neuropreservation patients, it's normal to take samples of other
tissue and store them also; furthermore, a head contains much more than 
simply neurons. It should be possible to not only make your head grow 
another body, but also make the glands and physiology of that body at least
as close to your own as that of a twin.

I therefore do not expect to be revived with different feelings, etc ---
though I would most certainly agree that our feelings are major things we
want to survive. So far as I understand our problem with suspensions, however,
it is our MEMORIES which may be hardest to preserve and recover. (Brain
vitrification would go very far towards solving this problem of preserving
memories).

And finally, some comments on brain vitrification:

First, if I understand Greg's ideas, once developed, brain vitrification 
itself would be comparatively cheap. The problem lies in finding an adequate 
solution which will allow us to take the head down to a temperature low enough
for really long-term preservation (centuries) without freezing.

Not only that, but once somebody has done it with ONE solution, others
should be able to find other solutions which will do the same or even better.
(Once it's widely known something can be done, it's easy to get money to do
it again!).

Though we will probably be able to patent that one solution, I doubt very
much that we will be able to patent the mere idea of brain vitrification:
it's been around in cryonics and cryobiology for at least as long as I've
been involved (since the early 1970's). The key idea of vitrification goes
way back to the 1960's, when Farrant showed he could get very good 
preservation of muscle tissue. I don't aim to denigrate work on that idea
at all: it's one thing to have a basic theoretical idea, and quite another
to actually bring it to fruition --- in many cases, the overwhelmingly
major part of the job.

HOWEVER, there is one added technology which may (at least for a while)
be much more expensive, and also needs to be worked on for very practical
reasons too. OK, let's suppose we know how to vitrify heads. And our
solution freezes if we take it down to liquid nitrogen temperature, but
can preserve a head for centuries so long as we keep it at -150 deg C (I
picked this number out of the air, the exact number isn't important).
LN is very convenient and cheap, not least because caring from patients
frozen in LN does not involve continuous supply of power, or any kind of
complex machinery or electronics. At the same time, so far no one has
found any SAFE chemical which will work just as well at the somewhat 
higher temperatures needed for vitrification. Sure, there are fine lab
refrigerators that will maintain such a temperature for as long as they
get power and don't wear out in any other way.....  (If I understand rightly,
the normal lifespan of a lab fridge is 10 years max). 

What we will need is some engineering work to find out a better form of
STORAGE, too. I would say that this issue is really crucial to the cost
of vitrified storage; not only that, but some kind of passive system,
which maintains the right temperature WITHOUT continual power input,
very likely WOULD be patentable.

Years ago, before the cryonics community got involved both in legal
questions and stupid fissiparous activities, Cryonet had some discussion
of possible ways to do this. For the problem of organ transplantation,
such means of storage are far less crucial (no one plans to store 
kidneys for 200 years just in case someone then needs them for a transplant).
I would say that this problem is one which very much needs solution for
the sake of cryonics.

The first thing to do, of course, is to work out how to vitrify brains.
And those who need suspension might be kept in the proper refrigerators,
at least for a while. But we must still solve this latter problem, too. 
I say this not to denigrate research on vitrification, but to explain how
the problem of safe really long term storage looks to me --- and yes, I feel
sure that this storage problem will be solvable. If any money is left over
after solving vitrification, this is the next problem to tackle. And 
depending, it may be wise to start on it once the vitrification problem
comes closer to success.

I hope to amplify on these points in the upcoming issue of PERIASTRON (the
editorial in the front). There's more to be said, certainly. But we 
should not think that all will be chocolate and roses once we know how to
vitrify brains.

			Long long life,

				Thomas Donaldson


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