X-Message-Number: 6629 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 96 12:59:41 From: Mike Perry <> Subject: re MelodieT MelodieT, #6620, writes: >Could someone recommend reading >material that would explain in detail cryonics? A good place to start, as Brian Wowk notes, is the Web and specifically, CryoCare's Web site, which also has pointers to other cryonics organizations. Alcor's Web site has useful information too: http://www.alcor.org Three good references on cryonics are (1) *The Prospect of Immortality* by Robert Ettinger (Doubleday, 1964, old but still worth a read, and the book that largely started cryon- ics); *Engines of Creation* by Eric Drexler (Doubleday, 1986, all about nanotechnology but with a chapter on cryonics); and *Cryonics, Reaching for Tomorrow*, Al- cor's reference work on cryonics. Two of these are now available on the Web: *Engines of Creation*: http://reality.sgi.com/whitaker/EnginesOfCreation/ *Cryonics, Reaching for Tomorrow*: http://www.alcor.org/library.html The other one, *The Prospect of Immortality*, is available in many libraries and also can be purchased from Alcor, along with other cryonics-related literature. >Also, does anyone know if any space agencies have done >research on cryonics as a possible answer to extended >space travel? I think a lot of talk has been expended on this possibility, but very little action. Basically, until reversible suspended animation is demonstrated, it seems unlikely that govern- mental or other big budgets will be committed to its possi- ble use in space travel. >What is the present law regarding the use of cryonics >while still alive? Has it been ever done? Premortem suspensions would fall under "assisted suicide," "euthanasia," or "aid-in-dying" as far as I am aware. (And this will continue until someone is resuscitated from a frozen state or evidence strong enough to convince bureau- crats emerges that resuscitation is possible.) Presently there are attempts, in various jurisdictions around the world, to provide for aid-in-dying. (And in some places, e.g. Hol- land, it is being practiced in technical violation of the law, but the law is not enforced.) So far, no premortem suspen- sions as such have occurred, as far as I am aware, and probably none will until laws allowing them are more firmly in place. Brian Wowk, #6621, writes to MelodieT: >I'm very sorry to hear that you and your husband are >both ill. If it's any consolation, cryonics in its current >state is still so crude and highly speculative that it's >probably just as well that your last resources are being >spent on medical care and comfort instead of cryonics. I certainly share the sympathies Brian expresses regarding your and your husband's illness, Melodie, as I'm sure others here do too. My feeling about cryonics is that, while there are many uncertainties, it's worth a try, but so are other forms of preservation, particularly if cryonic suspen- sion is not possible, e.g. for financial reasons or because of an accident that destroys the body before it can be frozen. For myself, I have a cell sample stored at my cryonics organization (Alcor) with the understanding that, if I can't be suspended, I want DNA from this sample used, along with other surviving information, to construct a functioning duplicate of me, as far as possible. I want missing informa- tion to be "filled in" using educated guesswork, and not just left missing. In this way, a complete individual should result, not just a "tabula rasa" clone or someone suffering severe amnesia. I feel that such a construction, done prop- erly, would be "me" and not just a similar but different individual, for reasons involving many-worlds physics. (I'd be happy to discuss this further, but will stop now in the interest of brevity, except to note that I think cryonics is better, other factors being equal, but the alternative is not negligible.) The DNA option was not difficult or expensive to arrange, and I recommend it as a backup to more usual cryonics arrangements, or as a first choice if more expen- sive arrangements are not possible. I should say too, that there are other preservation possibili- ties, intermediate in expense between DNA-plus-record storage and cryonic suspension. One is high-quality chemi- cal preservation. Of course, it is unknown at this point how this would compare with cryonics--would memories in a chemopreserved brain be inferable, for instance? (Would they be inferable from a *frozen* brain? We still don't know.) But there are techniques of chemical preservation that are far better (for the brain especially, which is the important organ to preserve) than what is used in conven- tional funerary embalming. Another possibility is chemo- preservation plus subfreezing, high-temperature storage, as in permafrost, which should be cheaper, longterm, than liquid nitrogen storage. Mostly, such possibilities have not had the attention that has been given to cryonics, and that in turn is not as much as we would like. This is a small movement and our re- sources are limited. But at least I think there are things almost anyone could do, that would favor that person's survival after death, in some reasonable sense. Some of my opinions are controversial, even within cryonics--people must judge for themselves. Mike Perry http://www.alcor.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6629