X-Message-Number: 6670 From: Garret Smyth <> Newsgroups: sci.cryonics Subject: Re: BRITISH DESTRUCTION OF EMBRYOS - any Ref? Date: Sat, 03 Aug 96 01:01:23 GMT Message-ID: <> References: <4ttnlt$> > > destruction of 3,000 human embryos... > >The embryos, essentially abandoned by their parents, were > >removed from liquid nitrogen freezers and immersed in a warm > >solution where they were allowed to disintegrate. > > Does this concerns cryogenics? > Cells, embryo, organs or bodies? Do the same rules apply? > > Dr W.THEAUX, NYC 960802 This has been quite big news here. The law in question is called something like "The Human Embryo Act" or "The Human Fertilisation Act" or some such. It was brought in to cover the general field of in vitro fetilisation and related research. The relevant bit here is that embryos can only be stored for five years unless the parents/donors actively ask for more time. The reason such a large number of embryos are involved is that the 1st of Aug was five years from when the law came into effect and embryos had been stored for some time before. Embryos of parents/donors who didn't respond to letters about the matter have to be destroyed by law. In general the law and moral philosophy is much thornier around the beginnings of our lives than at the end. The point at which we start to have rights accorded to us is tricky and hence all the fuss. If you're not considered human in the first place you don't have any rights at all, but if you have been "alive" and have been accorded rights then things are easier. The area of law around the coming into the world bit is also more clouded because things are so new in that area. Dying is pretty much the same as always so new laws aren't needed. I'm not a legal expert but I am a fully signed up member of Alcor in England. To the best of my knowledge, as English law stands someone is either alive or dead. Since cryonics patients are legally dead they affected by the usual laws - principaly the Anatomy Act of sometime last century and the more recent Transplant Act. (The latter act may have "human" and/or "organ" in there somewhere.) The patient is in the same legal state as a dead person and so their wishes for the disposal of their remains must be followed, unexpected death excepted. The law about embryos doesn't apply (although I must admit I haven't read it but it must have been written specifically about embryos because otherwise other frozen tissue/cell samples would be affected). The law surrounding cryonics will get much more complex when a significant proportion of the populace start to accept that the patients are potentialy alive. Recognising intermediate states between "Alive" and "Dead" will lead to calls for new and probably complex and undoubtedly flawed legislation. A problem we will just have to get through. It will happen though; Suda (Kobe University) froze those cats' brains and thawed them to find spontaneous brainwaves. Since the cats would now be defined as alive it would be hard to get such an experiment past an ethics committee nowadays, at least over here. The technology has since improved so it is only a matter of time before people start to realise that what applies to cats can also apply to humans. Patients frozen under the best conditions may well be alive even by today's standards. TTFN Garret -- Garret Smyth Phone: 0181 789 1045 or +44 181 789 1045 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6670