X-Message-Number: 6923 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: What fun! Let's have another fight. Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Hi! I've now read all the messages on this and the previous cryonet postings. Perhaps I'm wrong, but one central problem with specifying research on Visser's method is that Visser got the witnesses to her work to promise to keep most of it under wraps until the scientific paper(s) describing it came out. Sure, they had their own eyes, ears, and expertise to evaluate what they saw, but for someone who was not there and does not automatically trust them as individuals that simply cannot be enough. I personally feel somewhat more favorable to Alcor's pleas for money here, but frankly I do so mostly from trust of Alcor's staff. I've already explained my questions about Visser's method. And yes, on the basis of the data WHICH I HAVE NOW I favor doing our research on vitrification. But here we go again on disputes, wrangles, fights, charges, countercharges, on and on. If you guys really want to fight this matter out, why not wait for a few months until the scientific papers come out --- after which the most obvious excuse of Ettinger and Bridge becomes invalid, and maybe we will ALL get a much better idea how good her methods are. Arguments, particularly the kind here on Cryonet, have no substance without data. Or am I quite mistaken and the purpose of Cryonet is not to discuss cryonics and its meaning and its technologies, but instead to let us all be witness to an endless series of cockfights? If so it seems an awfully expensive way to do that. If you really enjoy that you might search around any local hispanic neighborhood and get all the cockfights you want. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6923