X-Message-Number: 6992 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: CryoNet #6975 - #6984 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Hi again! Although I am a member of Alcor, and presently have no plans to change that, I will say that with the information available to me right now, I would still incline towards research on vitrification. Brian Wowk is quite right about the effect of scientific-medical announcements in the "media". When examined, they rarely provide much real information at all. Given her background, I'd even say that Dr Visser is following a good strategy to promote her own work, but that's not the same as giving out the information needed for others who have the ability to understand and evaluate it. (I'm not be idealistic here --- just saying that my response, because I know more than most people about cryobiology, will be almost certain to differ from the common response). And I still incline towards vitrification because I have many questions about Visser's experiments which presently remain unanswered. And yes, making such announcements to the media, even if they are presently a good strategy, DO annoy me: Ms Visser, as do too many scientists, plays the seductress, with many fascinating shadows behind the curtain. But that is an annoyance with today's irrationalities and the behavior they promote and sometimes force. Of course I very eagerly await publication of these results. Where? I don't really care, so long as they are explicit and detailed about the exact freezing process, how long the organ was at LN temperature, what means were used to verify that (if we're quick about it we can stick our hands into LN and bring them out again with no damage), how the organ was examined afterwards, how long it was kept alive to test for possible long-term deterioration after freezing, and answers to many other such conditions. Every one of the questions I raise in this paragraph relates to one or another FAILED attempt at cryopreservation. It's not that I would insist on "publication in a refereed scientific journal", I just want many more details and details aimed at answering questions which those familiar with cryobiology would ask. It could be published in CRYONICS, for that matter, but whereever it is published it must be very detailed and precise. If for some reason such publication does not happen, then I will become suspicious. I am NOT suspicious now because I know (as someone who has published scientific articles too) how long they can take to come out. And I await that publication very eagerly. As for Prometheus, as I understand it, Paul Wakfer quite specifically has NOT committed Prometheus to investigate one particular way to preserve our brains. He has left that issue open: whatever method studied will be the best choice available. Perhaps it will turn out to be Visser's method. I see no arguments against Prometheus in these experiments at all. And I still hope that enough people will sign on that we can do research to preserve our brains, by whatever means look best. Long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6992