X-Message-Number: 7091 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:26:07 -0800 From: (Olaf Henny) Subject: Will it Still Be There? Re: Messages #7080 &7081 >Message #7081 >From: >Ron Selkovitch (#7080) seems to think that capitalism will not survive "into >the future" and that we are kidding ourselves if we think we or our >organizations can get rich through compound interest while we are in >cryostasis. It seems to me these remarks are greatly oversimplified and leave... (text eliminated) >Secondly, if capitalism eventually becomes obsolete, what will replace it? There are two basic methods of generating an income: - by providing labour (working) - by lending capital for profit (investing) Almost all of us earn our living by a combination of both. Lending money without (okay: with only minimal) output of labour is the purest form of capitalism, and it, in form of money lenders, has been around in *every* civilization we know of, and I conjecture, that when we were still hunters and gatherers and ill luck befell us we could borrow a fish or a leg of deer from our neighbour, and if the neighbour was shrewd enough, we probably had to pay him back with a "little piece extra". Where there is money, there is capitalism. A money-less society has never existed, and never will. Major societies like the Soviet Union and Mainland China have pursued the economic system "everybody in accordance to his/her needs" for many decades and never came close. Islands of capitalism survived even there through out the "communist" rule in a system, that never even approximated real communism. I can assure you, Ron Selkovitch, that the frame work for compound interest will still exist, if and when you will be revived [if the dough will still be there is an entirely different question ;-)]. If there will ever be an age, when nanotechnology will "make us all incredibly rich", it will be long *after* the future society will have achieved the capability to revive us, - heck I am convinced, that even the first nanotech cheesecake will come *after* revival technology. Let us not forget, that every little nanite will have to be hand designed and hand crafted at probably very high cost, before it can "self- replicate" into billions of copies, which are then able to perform only a very limited number of tasks, or are possibly only single task engines, which need to be 'converted' before they can perform other similar tasks. >As far as I can see, the only likely way capitalism could wither would be for >individuals or families to become essentially self-sufficient through >full-blown nanotech and AI. If every individual or family possesses an >"intelligent" machine, capable of reproduction and self-improvement as well >as general-purpose fabrication; and if such machines are made safe by making >them effectively extensions of the human brain; and if they use full-blown >nanotech and have access to some reasonable minimum of matter and energy; >then these machines could provide almost everything one might want, including >goods, information, advice, medical services, whatever. In such a milieu, >there might be greatly reduced need for trade or commerce and for any >credit/debit system. Such a "pristine" society will never happen. Just like it has just recently become possible for us to send e-mail around the globe at practically zero costs, *after we have paid for computer, modem, internet connection etc*, we will some day have our food, clothing and shelter necessities provided by nanotechnology "for free"(just imagine that &#*@% beef stew again, - tastes every day exactly the same!) *after* we have bought those high priced nanites, the raw material and a limited nanite converter [whatever that is ;-)] . However, there will be enormous challenges ahead: Colonizing Moon and Mars, assembling and financing expeditions to the planets, the asteroid belt and to the Centauri System. There will be an incredible demand for scientists and technologists to design and create new nanites for all these and more mundane tasks (including my cheese cake), that will exceed today's demand for computer programmers and software designers by orders of magnitude. FTL travel/communications and possibly gravity itself may have to be tackled and your precious nanites will be no help at all in developing the theoretic background for these sciences, nor will they be able to identify corridors of "curved space". All of that and millions more things will have to be done by wo/man. These wo/men will -want to be/have to be- rewarded for their efforts with that profane (to socialists) and lovely (to me) stuff, called money. If we are lucky, we will have a lot of it when we are revived, thanks to the happy, healthy institution of compound interest. If we are unlucky, it will not be for the lack of compound interest or capitalism, but because somebody else manged to grab it, while we were not looking. But, hey, we will have lots of time to make a new batch. :-)) May your dough still be 'rising', when you get there! Olaf Henny ------------------------------------------------------- To argue with those, who have no curiosity for any viewpoint but their own, is rarely fruitful. ------------------------------------------------------- Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7091