X-Message-Number: 7167
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:25:57 -0800
From: (Olaf Henny)
Subject: Subject: Boost Cryonics, was Cryonics and Science Fiction
Comment On Message #7159 From:Steve Bridge <>
>To CryoNet
>From Steve Bridge, Alcor
>November 18, 1996
>
>In reply to: Message #7153
> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:35:27 +1030 (CST)
> From: Sundance Bilson-Thompson
><>
Subject: Re: Broadening the base of Cryonics + >Sci-fi
> In my personal opinion and experience, Sundance and Olaf Henny
>may be somewhat off-base in assuming that the science fiction fan
>community is a good place for finding cryonicists. It is true that
>the general category of "people who like to read science fiction" is
>one sorting method for finding "people who might sign up for
>cryonics", but it is a coarse filter at best. Only by combining that
>with other filters such as "owns computer," "understands the
>difference between science and fiction," "works at a meaningful job,"
>etc. can you even begin to narrow it down.
The good news is, that somebody reacted to my Message # 7136.
The bad news is, that the fixation in the answers is on the less important part.
While I still think, that the community of science fiction fans gives you a
higher percentage of valid prospects, than any other group outside of
cryonicists, that *I* can think of (I read myself years ago of cryonics in
SF and decided to look it up on the net), the real intent of Message #1736
was to initiate discussion on vehicles, which will help us to break out of
the presently narrow constraints of the cryonics community. I was
soliciting ideas, no matter how half-cocked they may seem to the originator,
on broadening the support base for cryonics. It is obvious, that our small
community does not have the resources to fully fund the "Prometheus"
research Paul is proposing and that new sources of funding have to be found.
The message of cryonics has to be made available to a much larger segment of
the community in order to get over the critical mass hump. As much as I am
impressed by Visser's research and the work Alcor is doing in promoting it,
the heart is just a muscle, a pump, which we can approximate fairly closely
with the main remaining problem being the governing of the required output.
What is much more essential in preserving the "I" is my brain and my
endocrine system. In that respect Prometheus is much more important, than
anything else, that has been undertaken so far and is presently on the
drawing board. In order to realise this project we need more funding, i.e.
more cryonicists, i.e. *IDEAS* as to how we can expand our support base.
With all due respect to the long standing members of this community and for
all the excellent work they have done in the past, I respectfully submit,
that they may well be too resigned to (comfortable in?) the narrow confines
of the present cryonics group, to be up for an enthusiastic exchange of
ideas for recruiting new members. I see too much of a "bin there- dunnit,
don't expect to break the mould" This attitude is severely shrinking the
horizons for scientific work.
> Most people who are part of SF fandom -- the people who go to
>conventions, collect thousands of paperbacks, dress up funny, and
>talk Trek-speak -- are interested in the future only as
>entertainment. They don't want to *be there.* Of course, this is not
>true of everyone. Brian Shock, Hugh Hixon, and I have each attended
>many SF conventions over the years, and I see other cryonicists
>there. But even the more serious readers and science-oriented people
>are not in "serious mode" while at the conventions. I have concluded
>that attending SF onventions to find cryonicists is probably a poor
>use of one's time and money. You may find one or two new members;
>but they would probably have run across you anyway in their science
>circles.
I don't think, I would select my next lawyer from a Shriner's convention,
although I am sure, there will be some there and maybe even competent ones
I have already pointed out that it may be possible with a connection or two
to get a mentioning of cryonics research in the dedication section of the
book of a *science* fiction writer, preferably one who has already written
about the subject. Or how about getting people like *Frank Ogden, Dr.
Tomorrow*, the world renowned futurist interested. He is primarily
interested in cybernetics, but with his age and keen interest in the future,
he should not only be a prime prospect for cryopreservation, but also a very
credible proponent with lots of public exposure, providing, somebody can
keep his attention long enough to show him the serious scientific efforts,
which are planned in this field. Doug Skrecky, are you reading this? Do
you know how this man, who lives right here in Vancouver with us and is a
guru in your field, might be approached? Or maybe somebody else has had the
opportunity to meet him at some convention? His obviously monitor-protected
e-mail address is: <>
Other than news, I don't watch TV a lot but both Tom Sellek and whoever
played Captain Kirk at the original Star Wars series had future oriented
science series on TV. Stars like Kirk Douglas or Ernest Borgnine may not
quite through with their desire for life and Luciano Pavarotti may want to
present his talent to future generation in person. The empirical formula
for all those above would be: Approach 100, sign up one with permission to
use his name, get 1000 followers.
Half baked ideas? *YES*! Worth modifying them, to bring them closer to
realisation, possibly, but if either they or an idea presented by others
contain(s) only 5% of substance toward a solution for a significantly
increased membership, and nineteen others can also each contribute 5% to the
structure of a new workable approach, then we are on our way to greatly
improving the scientific base for cryonics.
> SF on-line discussion groups may be a slightly better filter,
>but I suspect only marginally so. Yes, you may find a higher
>percentage of literacy there and by definition there is a
>"computer-owner filter;" but from my limited perusal of such groups,
>the attitude is still the same. They are watchers, not doers. They
>fantasize about the future; but they take no actions to influence it
>or to get there themselves. The future is not a *real* place to them.
90% of almost any group are watchers. The trick is to find a way to let
*all* of them know about an existing opportunity. The "doers" will
crystallise themselves quickly out of the masses. The problem is how to get
and keep their attention long enough to arouse their curiosity.
> I will be curious to know if you guys get anywhere with
>discusions on SF on-line groups. If you bring in some cryonics
>members -- as opposed to merely having lively discussions with
>people who look upon *taming you* as an intellectual challenge -- I
>will be deeply impressed.
I have no intention to bumble helter skelter into approaching these groups.
First I want input from all of you, who have something to contribute, so
that a plan and a method can evolve to approach a target group outside of
cryonics in such manner, that they do not turn of before they are turned on.
> This approach is NOT one I will place any emphasis on here at
>Alcor, however.
No, of course not, but if you do want to contribute an idea, or a concept,
without putting your name to it, send it to me by private mail and I promise
to protect your anonymity (and anybody else's, who may feel, that his
reputation as a scientist might be tarnished, if he comes up with something
not properly thought through).
Cheers,
Olaf
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Greed is a very positive motivating force. Without it (the desire to
possess) man would still not have captured the fire, and would probably
still be swinging from the trees in some of the warmer regions of this globe.
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